Could anyone advise please ? Is the cooling system, on a 4WD Masterace (with the secondary horizontal radiator) a "sealed " system , ie, does the excess water, under expansion, lift the rad cap, enter the expansion tank, and get sucked back as the system cools ? I cannot quite see, how the rad cap would allow water back anyway. The "overflow pipe, is above the sprung seal on the cap and there does not seem to be any type of one way valve fitted. Am I overlooking something here ?
Also, below the rad cap seal there is a small outlet pipe which branches out in a Y connection. Is this a form of bypass and does each branch of the pipe go to one or other of the radiators ? When my vehicle is cooling, after a run, there is a discharge of water from the front of the vehicle, through a small rubber hose which emerges through the floor. I don't think this has anything to do with the air conditioning as that discharge pipe is further back on the vehicle so, could this outlet pipe be a form of overflow from, possibly, a modified and non pressurised system ? Any advice would be appreciated. - (#812) John Davis, 15 Aug 01

John, the system is pressurised, and coolant returns through the valve in the centre of the rad cap. The hose you refer to with the "Y" is an air bleed, I believe.
The leak at the front is interesting- the only drain is from the aircon, offset to the left, quite near the front. There is a drain tap at the front right of each rad- any chance of a split "O" ring?
Have a look again, I can't see how you could un-pressurise the system...
David - (#813) David Miller, 15 Aug 01

Thanks David for another helpful comment. I have checked the rad drain plugs (OK) and cannot find any faulty hoses or joints on the cooling system. I had thought that the front, left of centre drain tube MUST be something to do with cooling but, following your comment, and running the vehicle without the A/C in operation, hey presto, no discharge from this pipe. However, I do have an A/C drain tube around the middle of the vehicle, ie, behind the drivers seat and battery area, and had assumed this was the only one. I wil now embark on further testing etc of the system now that you have kindly outlined these features. Thanks - (#816) john Davis, 16 Aug 01

The drain you refer to is for the rear a/c... - (#818) David Miller, 16 Aug 01

Thanks again David for the advice. I naively thought that there was only one A/C system and, prompted by your advice I now know more. Surprisingly, my cooling problems might well have been caused by a new, faulty, rad cap which I feel did not allow the expansion tank contents to be syphoned back. Re-fitting the old cap seems to have done the trick - (#822) John Davis, 17 Aug 01

By now, many of you will know that I have been trying to put forward a detailed explanation of how the unconventional cooling system, fitted to the townace etc, actually works. I am doing this as I believe that in order to fully understand why it fails, we must first know why in most cases it doesn’t.

I guess this is another way of saying look out there’s another duff cooling theory coming, so here goes.

The townace seems to have as many radiators as the average house, and most of them seem to be add-ons to cope with the additional load of 4x4, auto boxes, cool boxes, twin air-con etc. So for the purpose of simplicity I am assuming that the add-ons are forming a secondary cooling system, that runs off the primary system that is, the main vertical radiator.

With the thermostat fitted to the cold feed to the engine, it suggests one of two possibilities.
Either the cooling system is working in reverse, and I’m sure someone has already verified that it isn’t, or the townace cooling system is designed to operate in an entirely different way to the norm.

From start up, with a closed thermostat, heat begins to build up in the engine. When the heat at the bottom of the engine is high enough, it will trigger the thermostat to open . As the thermostat opens cold coolant starts to enter the engine, and triggers the thermostat to close. Given that the closing temperature of the thermostat is less than the opening temperature, there will be a length of time between opening and closing which will give the pump time to expel some of the hot coolant to the radiator. As there is very little natural airflow through the radiator, heat will continue to build up in it until it is sufficient to engage the viscous fan.

Is it possible that the primary cooling system is designed to be a totally hot system, with the thermostat permanently open once the normal operating temperature has been reached?

This would allow the coolant to flow at its maximum rate, with the viscous fan regulating the temperature to keep it between the opening and closing temperatures of the thermostat. If this is correct, it would explain why these vehicles have so many problems with overheating, as it will only take a slight rise in temperature from a minor fault to cause the totally hot system to overheat.

It also helps to explains the perceived “suspect” advice from a parts man about cold climate stats opening at a lower temperature. If the viscous fan is designed to keep the primary cooling system at a near uniform temperature, then the job of the thermostat is to adjust the flow rate. If the cold climate thermostat operates at a cooler temperature, then it would remain open more often. This would give rise to fast flowing coolant, and fast flow = less efficient heat transfer, less cooling and higher engine temperatures. It then follows that hot climate thermostats operate at a higher temperature, and would close at times. This will restrict the flow, and Less flow = more efficient heat transfer, better cooling and lower engine temperatures.

Am I still barking up the wrong tree, or does any else think this may be reasonable ?

- (#6740) dave Bright, 16 Jan 03

I'm not sure about your statement "fast flow = less efficient heat transfer, less cooling and higher engine temperatures".

In a domestic heating system, if you increase the speed of your pump, you get faster water flow and hotter radiators. In this scenario, if you are passing coolant through a hot engine faster then in theory you should be dissipating heat faster from the block.

- (#6741) Ian Dunse, 16 Jan 03

In theory yes, but there is an optimum speed.

As the speed increases, so does the turbulence and eddy’s caused by the surface of the metal work. This causes coolant near the metalwork to stall, or move slower than that further away from it. As a result this creates hot spots within the engine, thereby reducing the heat transfer. This applies to absorbing heat within the engine, and releasing the heat within the radiator.

- (#6742) dave Bright, 16 Jan 03

Couple of things-
Most townies have one (1) bog standard rad. 4x4 autos have two. Anything else rad- like is for the aircon, and not related.

having the stat on the return side isn't unusual these days- and assuming the water pump actually works, it doesn't matter where it is, it's still sensing the temp. of the coolant circulating the head/ block.

The viscous fan does not "cut in", it runs all the time. The degree of slippage in it's clutch decreases as it gets hotter though.

There is NO option for different thermostats for different markets. One part number covers ALL applications of the 2C regardless of fitment or operating region.

It's generally accepted that removing the thermostat eg increasing flow will result in overheating. Fact is you'll never get sufficient flow in the system to reduce thermal transfer. Transfer of heat is indeed related to time spent in contact with the source/ sink but we certainly seem to be limited by the flow impedance of the system.
Think of the primary flow as through head and block returning through the heaters and the secondary as flow through the rad when the stat opens. The impedance of each affects their ratio at any stat opening- and it opens quite gradually, although there is a difference in the rate of response between original Toyota and aftermarket. But the stat is fully open at 95c (according to spec.)and we routinely see temps near 105c- this being acceptabe to Toyota as their auxiliary fan setups don't come in till then.

- (#6743) david miller, 16 Jan 03

Dave,
No, in my opinion, not another "duff" theory because we need to know as much as we can about these "odd" cooling systems and your comments add to the overall picture. The thermostat, on the cold(or cooler) return pipe, does seeem strange but, as David M has pointed out, the stat is constructed to be most sensitive to the hot side of the system, ie, the block. The stat is designed, and located, so that the heat sensitive capsule, with it's pick up baffle, is quite close to the inside block wall. I had mentioned, in a previous posting, that IMO, during the colder months, these stats never open at all and, if they do, I don't think they stay open very long.
I am now running with my standard Toyota, 30mm opening,stat, with just one 3mm "bypass" hole drilled in the flange, I have an accurate Durite gauge and the running temperature is approx 95C. My summer stat, is the standard one but, with three x 3mm holes. The works very well and even in the hottest weather, on long hills, with a loaded vehicle, the indicated temperature is never over 85/90. However, I am slightly concerned that, in both cases, I might be giving too much coolant flow (Is that possible with a Townace?)because, in the engine manual RMO25E, Toyota state "If the engine tends to overheat, removal of the thermostat would have an adverse effect, causing a lowering of the cooling efficiency". I now think that the system has been designed to operate on a fairly narrow temperature "band". The supplementary fans (4WD), cool the horizontal radiator, and these are sensed , from the coolant outlet, at the head, and they cut in, I believe, at around 105C. Perhaps you are right and the system could be a "totally" hot one though, as you say, any slight abnormality, in the temperature, seems to bring about disaster.
I should very much like to find out what the optimum working temperature should be. Is it, say, somewhere between the opening temperature of the stat, ie 82C and the opening temperature of the supplementary fans, ie, 105C? The Durite gauge is, I am sure, much more accurate than the standard one which Toyota fitted to these vehicles so, is the head/block "working" temperature correct at around 90/95C, roughly halfway between the stat temperature (82C) and the suppplementary fans (105C) or, should it be higher or lower? My average indicated temperature, ie 90/95 may not be too far out after all.

- (#6744) John Davis, 16 Jan 03

There is NO option for different thermostats for different markets. One part number covers ALL applications of the 2C regardless of fitment or operating region.

on this issue I was referring to an item on ace answers found under cooling and heating, thermostat, Temperature observations/thermostats. part of it reads...

This reminds me of a general comment made to me over the parts desk at my (helpful) local Toyota dealer. It went something like, "Townaces? great - but you must change the thermostat. The ones [originally?] fitted in Japan are not suitable [for UK]. A different part no. is recommended for UK/now".
So, is there something in this? Do I need to go back and enquire further? Is 90916 03046 what was fitted in Japan? or the one recommended for us?


This comment was made by Dave Mason, 15 Aug 02


- (#6745) dave Bright, 16 Jan 03

I understand and fully accept that the viscous coupling is neither stationary, or fully locked to the speed of the water pump. I am assuming something along the lines of , when slipping, it is only working at 20% of the speed of the water pump, and when locked is only working at 80% of the speed of the pump, then to some degree it is either turned on or off. Perhaps a more accurate phrase would have been “ idling or boosting ”.

I also understand and fully accept that the heat sensitive capsule on the thermostat, is quite close to the inside block wall, but don’t forget that once the thermostat opens, the capsule is enveloped in cooler water. This must have some effect on it, even if its only slight.

The difference in the head/block temperatures will be caused by cooler water entering the bottom of the block, and picking up heat as it travels up towards the exit at the top of the engine. I assume that Toyota have mounted the temperature sensor at the top in order to indicate the maximum temperature that the engine is at.

I had discounted the horizontal radiator from the primary cooling section because it is, as far as I can tell connected in parallel to the Primary Vertical radiator, and has its own cooling fans. As they cut in at 105C my assumption is that this is an additional boost to the Primary cooling circuit. After all if the temperature has reached 105C then the viscous fan is obviously failing to cool the primary circuit sufficiently .

- (#6746) dave Bright, 16 Jan 03

The operating regime of the electric fans on the horizontal rad on 4x4 autos (and not on manuals) would seem to be in off- road conditions, when the autobox would be sinking a LOT of heat due to converter slippage. Interestingly, those fans have a massive airflow, yet engaging them in normal circumstances won't decrease running temps appreciably.

The head/ block temperature gradient is greatest when the stat is open- when the stat is closed, return flow is through the heater matrices, diesel pump and oil cooler, and the loss isn't so much.

Re thermostat ratings, methinks the dealer was spreading an "urban myth". I have searched the parts cds for UK, Jap, and US models fitted with the 2C engine- car, mpv, van, and they all have the same stat. Even the "snow models".

- (#6747) david miller, 16 Jan 03

Dave Miller,
I’m so glad someone has mentioned the auto box and 4X4 drive, both have the capacity to cause overheating, and are most often overlooked.

As you rightly say with 4 wheel drive engaged, or with a big payload on tow, the additional strain on the engine alone is sufficient to raise the temperature enough to cause a possible overheating event, never mind that the boxes themselves generate heat. The fact that they do is a real headache as both are, to coin a phrase “ outside the coolant envelope “. Admittedly the auto box has a cooling coil connected through the secondary system radiator, but this is only really sufficient in normal conditions. If the oil in the auto box, and or 4-wheel drive coupler is too old or cooked, it too will cause excessive heat to be generated., way beyond the cooling capacity of the coil.

Any automatic vehicle that has had, or is suspected of having a prolonged overheating problem, is likely to have bad gearbox oil. This may be as a result of overheating, or possibly even the cause of it.

In reference to the lack of additional cooling by use of the secondary radiator, I suspect that this may be due in part to the fact that the heat extracted from it, is subsequently drawn through the primary vertical fan. This may well cause one to cancel out the other. I suppose its entirely possible that if the secondary, horizontal radiator reaches 105C when the fans cut in, then this could cause the temperature of the primary vertical radiator to increase, particularly if the viscous fan is boosting.

- (#6748) dave Bright, 16 Jan 03

Personally I think that one of the reasons that Toyota so kindly complicated the cooling system on 4WD autos, is because of the possibility that you might want to use low ratio in the transfer box, coupled with lower ratios & more slippage in the convertor in the auto box, thus having less air flow from forward movement for your relative engine speed, thus more heat to dissipate. We need to ask ourselves whether we actually need this extra radiator in normal use, additionally, I believe that the two fans on the horizontal rad actually blow the air out of the bottom of the vehicle, thus not pushing it through the vertical rad (look at the louvres on the underside of the car, they point backwards) perversely, this air flow could actually 'rob' the vertical rad of air flow when the huge fans on the horizontal rad/condensor cut in. The very fact that the horizontal rad fans don't come in until around 105c suggests that Toyota intend the vehicle to run at around 102c anyway. Let's face it, there is only a very narrow band at which any engine will run efficiently, if you look at any modern car, they have tiny cooling systems, with lots of sensors & electric fans that cut in & out at very narrow bands, gone are the days of Cortinas with huge radiators, fixed crank driven fans & having to cover half the radiator with card in the winter otherwise the heater never gets hot. The way in which the cooling system workins isn't that unconventional, but the addition of a second rad, would probably have been better undertaken by putting a double thickness cored rad in place of the vertical rad, but maybe Toyota just raided the parts bin to improve cooling, and as the air con condenser was just sitting there with a couple of fans above it, they thought 'let's shove another rad in here & bodge it into the existing cooling system', another problem appears to be the fact that the fan switch is mounted in the top of the ccolant out flow, if you have let your coolant drop down (perhaps due to it not getting drawn back into the cooling system under vacuum on cool down), then the fan switch is not in the coolant & subsequently not switching on the horizontal rad fans, just when you need them most. (this was often a problem with mk3 Escort CVH's, they too had the fan switch screwed into the thermostat housing, on top of the engine, if the stat got stuck, or the coolant was low, the rad fan wouldn't cut in, just at the time when you really need it, bang!!! overheat). The Townace cooling systems is, admittedly, teetering on the edge, but I think that if you convert to an electric fan on the vertical rad (to eliminate the problem of dodgy viscous couplings) and regularly check & change the coolant mixture, change the pressure cap & stat periodically & clean out the cooling system with a flush, then (touch wood) you can help to stop the overheating problem. It comes back to giving these old beasts a bit of TLC. Regards Rob.

- (#6749) Rob Drinkwater, 16 Jan 03

I agree with just about everything you say, Rob. The horizontal rad may very well "rob" flow from the main rad. I know that dropping the front rad half an inch seemed to make a difference, better ram, I suppose.
Not so sure that 102c is the design temp. The stat is rated as open 82-84, fully open by 95. I've never seen any other car that runs so high in normal conditions- Citroen XUD (known for cooking heads also) as fitted to my father's ZX and mine before run at bang on 90 on the gauge, and that's a linear gage, 100c and the fan comes on...
Re the fans switch's position, we have to first of all bear in mind that only very few townies have this secondary fan setup, none of the 2x4s do, and they blow h/g's too. But it's my experience that conduction through the outlet neck does bring the fan on even in a boil dry situation. BTDT. Fans happily run, cooling the air in the rad...
This is why I've got the indicator setup I have. One thermal switch at the cold end of the main rad, two in the outlet neck. The one on the rad swtches at 50c IIRC, bringing the fan on at low speed along with a warning light (green). At 100c at the outlet the fan comes on full along with the extra fans plus a warning light (amber). At 105c at the neck, a red light comes on. If I ever see amber or red without green, I've either got a faulty thermostat or no coolant (no need to closely watch the gauge). So far, I've never seen the red light come on when driving, and the amber one only twice or so while driving. Both may come on during the heat-soak period shortly after turn-off.

- (#6750) david miller, 17 Jan 03

In August I reported my (usually-clued-up) Toyota parts man referring to an alternative thermostat. On balance I guess he was mistaken, but as John says every comment can add to the overall picture.
- (#6836) Dave Mason, 17 Jan 03

Being the owner of a 2.2TD Manual gearbox Townace I would like to correct the assumption that only autos have a second, horizontal cooling system radiator. My Townace, Model KD-CR31G-MEZX (which I think confirms it was a manual gearbox from new) has a horizontal rad under the A/C condensor. It also has the small A/C condensor behind the front bumper.
My own observations on the Townace cooling is that it is probably the only vehicle I have worked on where the thermostat does not open while stationary at fast idle. On all other vehicles in my experience, flow through the radiator as detected by the top/bottom rad hoses getting hot, occurs after about 10 minutes of fast idle while stationary. On the Townace I am convinced the thermostat only opens under quite heavy load (e.g. pulling caravan up long incline) but under all conditions the (Toyota) temperature guage shows just below half reading. By the way I fitted a new Toyota thermostat and rad cap soon after getting the Townace after getting paranoid about the postings on this site.
Hope this info is helpful, the site is great and contains so much useful information.

- (#6837) Ken Pope, 18 Jan 03

i am reading with great interest in what you lads are saying and i am just starting to understand how my cooling system operates i have a 4x4 masterace which has got lots of everything and i am starting to see what an interesting set of wheels i own.but at the moment it still reads like rocket science to me.touch
wood my cooling ok apart from a small leak on my horizonal rad.


- (#6838) DENNIS, 18 Jan 03

Interesting observation, Ken. As yours is a 2.2, it's post 92, yes? We have more limited knowlegde of the facelift versions (my cd only covers the 80-92 models)
So the later ones have the extra rad then. Is yours 2x4 or 4x4?

- (#6839) david miller, 19 Jan 03

Possible that Toyota decided to standardise the cooling on post 92 models I suppose, but It looks like a CR31 would be 4x4, it would be interesting to see if any RWD models have the horizontal rad on the 92 on models, if so, do we assume this was to try to combat the overheat problem. We all know that the 2CT & 3CT suffer from head problems in other vehicleas as well, but another bit of info I received from the trade recently is that the Toyota Picnic 2.2TD (Yes the 3CT-E engine again) also suffers the head gasket failure problem, with some cracks in heads reported. The source I cot this from suggests that the head cracks, then the overheat occurs, not the crack being caused by the overheat as we assume. Could this then be a metalurgy problem, with the heads failing due to age/stress, not heat. So could we be barking up the wrong tree a bit here, assuming that all our woes are from the cooling system. Can't give you a definitive answer on this, but throwing another suggestion into the ring.

- (#6840) Rob Drinkwater, 19 Jan 03

Heard that too, Rob- there was an Avensis (2CTE) in my local dealers on a recent visit. Low miles, no history of water consumption, but a new head casting under warranty...
Apparently the 2L engine as used in the Hiace and Hilux suffers fron cracking too, even though it's iron!

- (#6841) david miller, 19 Jan 03

So anyone know of a Honda engine that would fit in these beasts :-)

- (#6842) Ian Dunse, 20 Jan 03

Further musings on cooling system.

On another thread I put up a link to an American web page full of information on cooling problems. The initial section deals with the ratio of fuel burnt against heat produced. It says;

“As your engine burns gasoline, a little less than a third of the released energy goes into mechanical energy to run your car. The rest is converted to heat. Some of that heat is blown straight out the tailpipe, while the rest heats the engine itself. Without a cooling system, the engine would be destroyed by heat within 3 to 30 minutes of start-up.”
source
Steve Litt troubleshooters.com"

This would mean that when the engine is idling, it is using the least amount of fuel and therefore producing the least amount of heat. Conversely, driving at speed, up steep hills, 4 wheel drive, and using air con whilst any of the above, will use lots more fuel and therefore produce lots more heat.

During the recent cold spell, I left the engine running for some 7 minutes on idle, whilst I scraped off all the frost, and waited for my wife to get ready. I had hoped that it would result in a nice warm engine and interior when we were ready to leave. Surprisingly the temperature gauge hadn’t moved at all, and it took its usual distance of travel, before the temperature gauge reached its usual position.

I remember reading somewhere, Townace hand book I think, the advice during an overheating event is to park up and keep the engine running on tick-over. This suggests that the cooling effect of the main engine fan when “ Boosting“ is greater than the heat produced by the engine whilst idling. Therefore the cooling system is at its most efficient, (possibly over efficient with main fan on boost), whilst on tick-over.

Is it possible that an alternative to the “totally hot system” may be a “far more dynamic thermostat” than in conventional cooling systems?
- (#6843) dave Bright, 20 Jan 03

diesel engines are much more efficient than petrol engines, but the Indirect Injection variety as fitted to the townie has it's combustion heat focussed in the prechamber in the head. Ergo, what heat there is is concentrated in four small areas. When cold, this heat dissipated quickly, but when running hard and hot there is a likelyhood of localised boiling in these areas.
A townie with both heaters on full will cool enough at idle for the stat to close off. Moreso if the idle up switch is depressed, as EGTs drop and the water pump is more efficient at the slightly higher speed.
But seven minutes of idle? that should have warmed air coming from the heater, and the gauge needle on the scale.
Honestly, Dave. Our cooling system is totally conventional. It just doesn't work very well!
Try an air scoop under the front to funnel more air to the rad, and ensure that the rad is sealed round it's periphery.

- (#6844) david miller, 20 Jan 03

i am a new owner 1990 4*4 townace bought 2 months ago i use it every day for my work which is traveling all over the uk calling on farms i am finding it the best vehicle ever for me. however i dont think it was designed for my purpose,1000 miles a week including a lot of moterway work towing a trailer,its had, new engine re cored rad,£2000 spent,but it still gets a bit hot on those long motorway hills .i switch on the heater and ithelps it cope.i think its a design fault could i fit a more eficiant rad or an extra one somewhere.i have fitted new stat and drilled extra holes as suggested it makes no difference.allthough 95% of the time its doing its job its just those steep hills !and i am worried one day it might blow!!does anyone have an answer to the problem?

- (#10205) rob clayton, 20 Aug 03 5:26

I think you've answered your own question Rob. They were designed for the Jap home market to mainly sit in city traffic on a relatively small island.

I think Toyota have tried to 'squeeze a quart out of a pint pot' with the Townie by taking an engine from a car (Camry) and bolting on loads of extras. Not much overhead which means that everything needs to be running right.

As you have probably gleaned from previous posts, various additional tasks have been tried to alleviate the problem of overheating such as extra holes in the stat, positioning the license plate to ensure max air intake and ensuring any gaps around the rad are blocked. Some swear that electric fans are better.

I too have added extra holes to my 'summer stat' which reduces running temps in the main but I too still experience high temps, particularly when climbing long hills on a motorway as you state.

Long term I assume this will have a damaging effect on the engine, particularly the head but that's life I'm afraid.

A big plus for me has been fitting a temp gauge expander and alarm as made by Dave Mason. It alerts me when the temperature starts to rise appreciably above the norm so that I can effect counter driving measures to bring it down again. By reducing the time that the engine runs hotter than normal, I hope to prolong the time before I need a major overhaul. One can but hope.

- (#10206) Ian Dunse, 20 Aug 03 6:41

As usual Ian has made some very good points here.

On the subject of extra radiators, if you have a 4x4 auto, it already has an additional cooling radiator mounted horizontally under the floor at the front. Above this are two air conditioning radiators that each have a fan. These fans are primarily for the air conditioning, but will cut in if the engine temperature rises above 105°C. A possibility exists to run an additional switched feed to operate these fans without the air conditioning system. This should improve the cooling in two ways. Firstly it would increase the cooling of the horizontal radiator, and secondly, the additional heat flow that will be drawn over the viscous coupling, will engage the main engine fan for longer. It may be worth pointing out that as the temperature of the engine is controlled by the thermostat, overcooling of the radiators may result in thermal shock to the engine block.

I’m not too familiar with the alarm that Dave Mason has produced ( Recent head expiry led me down the fit a proper gauge route), but theoretically the audible feed could, via a relay, run a switched feed to the air conditioning fans?

- (#10355) dave Bright, 20 Aug 03 9:35

Sorry to contradict you DAve, but the air going through the horizontal radiator & A/C condenser actually comes in through the front grille & exits via the slats in the bottom of the vehicles, so the fans actually push the air out of the borrom of the car & not through to the vertical radiator. We have been looking at ours on a rolling road, with smoke traces to see where tha air actually goes, when I shorted out the fan switch to earth so that the horizontal fans ran all the time, it actually robbed the vertical rad of air, thus reducing it's capability to cool. This is just a design quirk of the car & there is little we can do to improve it, short of opening up the aperture at the front of the car (lol).
Regards Rob.

- (#10356) Rob Drinkwater, 20 Aug 03 14:45

That’s very interesting Rob. I had assumed that it would be easier for the fan to pull air through the radiator rather than push it. You have obviously gone to a lot of trouble to demystify this cooling system, and I hope you wont mind a couple of questions. I would have thought that as the air conditioning fans are used increases the overall cooling at temperatures in excess of 105°C, even if it robbed the vertical fan of some air flow, this would be more than compensated for, by the increase in cooling to the horizontal radiator?
When you performed this test, was the cooling system hot enough to have engaged the viscous coupling when the air conditioning fans robbed it of air flow?

Regards
Dave Bright

- (#10357) dave Bright, 20 Aug 03 16:48

Maybe it is just me, but as I looked under the front of the car when we first got it, I surmised by the direction of the holes in the protection plate under the front that the air was expelled down and not drawn up.
It is interesting that you actually went to the trouble of testing this - I always just assumed it was so. My thought was that you wouldn't want it drawing up dirt and muck and blocking up the fins, which would happen if you were playing in mud and dirt.
Maybe it is the different mindset, due to the fact that I consider my 4X4 for recreational purposes (I'm in Western Australia - no snow!) and you guys tend to see it more as a transport safety and progress aid.

It is good to know for certain though!

Dave.

- (#10358) DaveW, 20 Aug 03 20:55

Hi all, Just brought one for purley toodling around in and general purpose vehicle. Reading all these notes about cooling has made me a tad worried and therefore, I have a few questions for you learned folk out there:

1. Any suggestions as to a good insurer?

2. Can an additional oil cooler be fitted?

3. What first checks should I do on the vehicle and are there any mod, add on's or things in general I can do to make sure we dont go into melt down on the first run to france.

I do not think we will task the vehicle too much during its life with us but I would like to ensure it does what it says on the tin!

Advice thankfully received

Steve and Lisa Oxford

- (#10359) Steve, 22 Aug 03 4:30

Hello Steve.
There is little you can do to ensure that you won't ever succumb to the overheating problems, but there’s a lot you can do to reduce the chances. What you see here are the recent questions and answers relating to the Toyota Ace family. Have a look at the archives on townace.com archives This has a huge amount if information on all topics relating to these cars.

If you visit townace.com you will find that Dave Mason is using the archives to produce a handbook. Its well worth reading as well.

Welcome to the club, and happy motoring
dave Bright

- (#10360) dave Bright, 22 Aug 03 5:34

Hi All,
I've posted a message regarding this subject before, so as to keep your cool try this product it is called " Water Wetter " by Redline Oil. To find details log on to www.donutz.co.uk/service.html in full and look for the water wetter details. It is used in racing engines. You don't need the diesel version that is for heavy duty plant machinery.
For about £17.00 it could save you a lot of worry and money, but before you use it take precautions mentioned by previous and more experienced friends on this forum.
Happy motoring

Wyn

- (#10361) wyn hamer, 22 Aug 03 6:25

Just surfing - but thought these temp indicators from Frost looked interesting - cheap too - not sure where you would put them etc. but worth a look
http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8691

- (#10362) chris turner, 22 Aug 03 8:47

Hello
has anyone tried this water wetter, all the blurb in the ad looks good and if it works it would be great.
regards Eli

- (#10363) Eli, 25 Aug 03 17:33

My brother-inlaw has a 1988 Townace and he brought it over to the house and by the time he got here it overheated. We let it cool down and filled it up with collant and water. After he ran it for a moment, collant start spilling out of the bottom of the engine. Now I have three questions:
1. Does the townace have a water pump?

2. If so, where is it located?

3. If not, what do you think would cause the coolant to spill out?

I'm normally pretty good with American vehicles, but found out I know nothing about Jap vehicles. Appreciate the help.

- (#10701) Craig Gilmore, 8 Sep 03 11:12

The water pump is at the front of the engine, in the normal location. Driven by cam belt or fan belt depending on engine.
Sounds like the head gasket's gone tho...

- (#10702) david miller, 8 Sep 03 13:26