I have a 1993 Townace which has devoloped a cooling problem in so much as whilst travelling it blows hot ,but when stopping for whatever reason the heater blows cooler air, Any ideas anyone??? - (#1399) Brian Mitchell, 8 Nov 01
Coolant level low, airlock in heater matrix ? - (#1400) Ian Dunse, 8 Nov 01
Brian,
If you do the checks suggested by Ian,and this is not the cause, another avenue to explore is the operation of the heater "flap" between cold and hot. On my Masterace I found that when I moved the dashboard control from cold to hot, the solenoid which operates it (in front of the passenger seat behind the plastic cover)was "lazy" and the lever & pivots needed a clean.
Ram effect also might be why the heater blows warmer when travelling and the flap might not be fully open to take air from the heater matrix. I might be totally wrong with these suggestions but, it's worth a check - (#1401) John Davis, 8 Nov 01
Idle speed too low?
eroded water pump impeller?
Scaled up system- too many doses of radweld? - (#1402) David Miller, 8 Nov 01
we have a 1992 towance which constantly blows cold air through matrix, but when kept at 3000 revs blows hot air through but there is bubbling in expansion tank & water flows out the tube at the side of tank.
Is this a water pump problem? or any suggestions. we have bled the system a few times to no avail.. - (#2410) DEREK, 5 Mar 02
Derek
Do I take it that you are constantly topping up the coolant level? I don't want to jump to conclusions but you could be experiencing the early symptoms of the "Townace Coolant Syndrome". Before we go down that route, check the seal on your radiator cap. If it looks worn make a new seal or get a new cap. Do the radiator and hoses look ok? No dirty brown tell-tale signs of coolant loss anywhere? Any water in the oil? Assume the heater controls were "on" when you bled the system?
It looks like you are sucking in air to the coolant system from somewhere. Check the more obvious before finally suspecting the head gasket.
Finally, review relevant posts on Townace.com - there have been many previous posts on this subject.
HTH
Ian - (#2411) Ian Dunse, 5 Mar 02
Hi,
What Ian says is good advice, I would just add that you are at the 10 year mark so having the radiator recored or a new one would be the thing to do, change the radiator cap and the thermostat. I paid 111 pounds for a recore, you could pay 80 to 120.
You should do this first even if it was the head gasket. The only other thing to look at apart from the pipes is the fan, see the BOK.
Harry Chrisna - (#2422) Harry Chrisna, 6 Mar 02
hi everyone i own a 4wd 2.0td townace anyone know where ican get hold of the (2)hoses forward of the main rad supplying the horizontal rad .toyota main dealer (bath)21-28 days and not very helpfull. - (#2727) Martin, 21 Apr 02
yesterday the temp guage showed that the engine was running cooler than previously - also less heat from heater, which backs up the guage
am I right in thinking this could be as simple as the thermostat sticking open - or something more sinister like the viscus fan?
- (#3380) skippy, 16 Jun 02
possibly thermostat- how's the warmup?, and how much cooler- where on the gauge?
- (#3381) david miller, 16 Jun 02
seems to warm up a little slower than usual
temp guage is usually one mark on the cool side of the centre, but is now fluctuates between 2-4 marks on the cool side of centre
- (#3390) skippy, 16 Jun 02
Yup, sounds like the stat...
- (#3393) david miller, 17 Jun 02
i think I'll get a new rad cap too - every now and then it fails to draw water from the filler tank
- (#3396) skippy, 17 Jun 02
he says that my chassis number is the older type cap (88-90) and the one listed as 64501 is for newer models from 1990 on
he quoted part number 16401-63010
- (#3403) skippy, 17 Jun 02
new thermostat fitted
new rad cap fitted
temp gauge goes to the correct position, but when in traffic it gets cooler
- (#3486) skippy, 23 Jun 02
Continious bubbling from rad small bubbles no big ones no overheating garage found one split pipe and changed now there seems to be another split pipe if the head gasket has gone would it be finding a weak point and blowing the pipes, If rad has gone is it wiser to get it replaced or get the old one fixed have heard that fixed ones dont last that long thanks for an amazing site. By the way tesco insure townies and quite reasonably
- (#3408) Andrew Morgan, 17 Jun 02
I am afraid to say that the continuous small bubbles are most probably caused by a leakage of cylinder pressure into the water jacket, caused by the 'Achilles Heel' of these vehicles i.e. the head gasket has probably failed. It is quite common on the Townies, it only takes them getting a bit too hot once & you're in trouble. The reason that the hoses are now splitting is because the cooling system is getting pressurised far beyond the 15 psi or so it should run at by the gasses from the engine cylinder(s) this then finds the weakest part of the system to exhale these gases, in your case it is the hoses, be warned, if you renew the hoses, the radiator could be the next weakest link, depwnding on age, rust & condition. There are extensive & detailed reports on the Head Gasket problems & replacement on the main site, linked at the bottom of the page, or on townace.com. The radiator is, I understand, horrendously expensive from Toyota, so you might be better off getting yours recored. And yes we are also insured with Tesco, my wife works for them & gets a further discount. HTH Regards Rob.
- (#3411) Rob Drinkwater, 17 Jun 02
I had this which was due to Head Gasket leak.
New gasket fixed it (for a short while) because a very forgiving aluminium gasket was fitted.
It turned out the block needs facing and the engine is stripped down at an engineering firm this very minute.
So, ALWAYS check the block face when replacing the head gasket. I did this by cleaning it thoroughly, colouring it in whith a fat marker pen and then running a metal ruler across the face. The low areas between cylinders and waterways became very obvious.
- (#3416) Ray, 17 Jun 02
just got back from camping holiday in devon. townie ran great! no coughs, splutters or loss of necessary fluids.
one thing to mention though, a lot of heat coming up through central console and a very warm left knee, (leaning against handbrake!).
is this normal? if not, any ideas?
if it is, could i line underside of floor with more insulation, maybe the reflective stuff you get for household radiators, or would this cause heat problems?
as an aside, i stuck to 90kph on motorway runs and found fuel economy seemed quite good.
i did see three other townies on way back, one on hard shoulder, one on back of a pickup and one doing about 80mph as he went past, wonder if that was rob drinkwater with his extra 8bhp and elecy fans!! ;-)
- (#5330) eddie arrowsmith, 31 Aug 02
not guilty!!!!
wasn't me officer!!!!
yes you do get a bit of heat around the centre console, one of the perils of sitting on, rather than behind the engine i suppose, but shouldn't be a great problem, just turn the air con up a bit. if it is too hot, then you may need to arrange the additional cooling as we have discussed at length. regards rob.
- (#5331) Rob Drinkwater, 31 Aug 02
hi there guys, just returned back from devon . on the way down from south wales got as far as taunton and ooooooooooops up went my temp guage. pulled in at services and let her cool down then topped up with water. another 10 miles down the motorway up she went again so i called the heroes of the day the rac who eventually told me the dreaded news yes the head gasket had gone bear in mind i have 5 screaming kids in the back all baying to get to the beach in torquay and this is the first day of our hols . finally got her to a reputable garage in torquay who was willing to get her back on the road but has it was bank holiday weekend i would be hard pushed to have it back by latest friday my last day of hols. any advice has the guy in the garage says to fit an electric fan . any advice on where to get one would be appreciated . oh townie is runnung fine now but i am £400 lighter in my pocket . (still the kids enjoyed themselves) on the beach. see ya later all you townie nutters.
- (#5332) KEVIN ELSEY, 1 Sep 02
hi everybody
has any body got an electric fan for sale or do they know a nice person who may have one . it is for my petrol 1989 efi 2.0 townace.
thanx
- (#5333) KEVIN, 1 Sep 02
Eddie, try a layer or two of the foil backed foam sold for reflectors behind c/h radiators One under the carpet, one on the underside of the floor. It'll cut a fair bit of the radiated heat
- (#5334) david miller, 1 Sep 02
kevin,
have a look in townace.com archives - all you need to know. one from a scrappy or new from pacet all covered. so petrol versions overheat and blow head gaskets also.
hth
- (#5335) clive, 2 Sep 02
Kevin,
Sorry to hear that, from a fellow PETROL 1989 EFI 2.0 owner, and oh dear "So petrol versions overheat and blow head gaskets also", ahhrrgg :<((
Which bring us back to the “What cooling problem? debate (by Dave Mason) and the many creative approaches/attempts to solutions shared in earlier posts. So folks, is it fair to look at overheating not (only) as a 2C or 2C-T engine problem, but as “The Townace Endemic Problem”? (I assume Kevin’s got a 3Y-E engine) and, is it also fair to assume that this “apparently certain finale” is just improvable (by following the many leads to improving cooling, air flow, etc.) but not fixable at all?
For what’s worth, Kevin, your share of your honest perceptions of the circumstances which may have accelerated this quagmire will be much appreciated.
Regards,
Manecas
- (#5373) Manecas, 2 Sep 02
Have been reading through archives about engine cooling
and find that a few owners have swapped to electric fans.
What would the effects on performance if the viscous coupling fan was made to run all the time?
I don't think the weather would have a bearing as ambient temp is around 12c low/20c high!
It is hard to know at what stage the viscous fan is "cutting-in" as in most instances,after reaching around town temp,the fan is easily stopped by poking a rolled up newspaper into fan!
1988 Masterace 2C-T,5 speed manual.
Cheers, Trev.
- (#7841) Trev Sutton, 27 Mar 03
I had just these worries on my Hiace
Used a gunson multimeter with the temp probe strapped to the thermostat housing (other meters with temp probes can be had for reasonable cash if you make some calls)
This showed up to 91 degrees at its highest which I assume is OK
I would recomend this method as a quick way of overcoming or confirming worries
Interestingly the viscous could be heard locking a plenty the day after I got the aircon charged (extra load?)- where as I'd never heard it before except at start up
I also noticed today that the UK style number plate is restricting airflow to the rad so will deal with this soon
Saw an add in a motoring mag for a fluid called radiator relief. It 'claims' to half warm up time and reduce water temp by 'up to' 17 degrees for £22.31 from Agriemach ltd - Tel
01342 713743
However I wonder if the Toyota designed operating temp might be preferable?
Personally I prefer something to operate as designed - but, 'where needs must' etc. + if it is an improvement?
Unsure, but good luck
Chris
- (#7842) chris turner, 27 Mar 03
the viscous coupling is always engaged, but the amount of power transfer (and thus fan speed) varies with temp...
- (#7843) david miller, 28 Mar 03
Thanks Chris & David,
Chris,I had a look at Agriemach's Web-site but unfortunatly I am in NZ!No agents that I am aware of!
David,Yes I understand that viscous coupling is always connected,but as I dont know at what temp the fan runs up to engine speed for maximum cooling.What would be the consequences of fixing fan to run all the time at engine speed?
Next question;Are these viscous couplings serviceable?
Cheers,Trev
- (#7844) Trev Sutton, 28 Mar 03
they are serviceable. You should be able to order the fluid from your dealer. The temp. sensor is the spiral bimetallic on the front, you can test it's operation by pointing a hairdryer at it.
There's a writeup somewhere on the web on how to refill the coupling, but the essence of it is that you split the casing halves, clean out the old fluid, add the new, and rebuild.
However, I believe I read somewhere that pattern couplings were available in NZ and AUS, for not too much money...
- (#7845) david miller, 28 Mar 03
Thanks again David,
Hows the Vitara going?
Cheers,Trev,
- (#7873) Trev Sutton, 28 Mar 03
Good, Trev, good. Had to change the rear shocks, the standard ones are a bit too bouncy for me fully laden, but other than that, excellent. 3000miles so far, running in nicely. I've seen 37mpg, and it's still improving.
- (#7874) david miller, 29 Mar 03
hello folks just became a townie owner repairer think this a wicked site been tons of help despite all suggested checks before buying i e new head gasket and skim .after a couple of days problems arose i e temp gauge packed in can anyone h
elp i e position of sender. changed temp 1 and temp 2 on top neck but still no life gauge is working i e goes to roof if earthed out help much appriceated since buying have fix repared with this sites help air con /locks /interier lights / four w drive .turbo boost lights . idle up ..thanks to ian dunce , vac pipes plan ..have just stripped turbo .bad oil leak from impeller into exhaust now looking for recon .checking a number of specialist so i will post prices if anyone wants them
- (#8487) mark, 12 May 03 18:09
l/h side of the head, under the manifold (beside no.3)
It's a spade terminal, not unknown for the wire to slip off the sender...
- (#8488) david miller, 13 May 03 1:24
thanks david had a suspicion i had missed one ..checked wire ..is atached ..as usual in such an easy to find place ...so looks like on phone in morning...
- (#8561) mark, 15 May 03 17:56
help,need some new metal pipes for heaters and cooling system.called at a local hydraulics company in sheffield but could not get such tight bends in tubes.cost of one heater pipe from dealer is £190.68 + vat.got to do something.that puts total replacement of pipes at near 800 quid.does any body know a solution.
- (#8562) TED, 16 May 03 12:58
yup. Go to your local hardware store and get a selection of copper tubes and fittings. 15mm IIRC. Solder 'em up...
Ian Dunse will be able to tell you more next week, he's already done it.
- (#8563) david miller, 16 May 03 13:15
cheers Dave,thought about copper but was'nt sure about pressures.look forward to hearing from Ian.
- (#8564) TED, 16 May 03 16:05
Hi Ted
Sorry, been busy drying tents and stuff after a stormy couple of days at Brean, coincidentally met a load of other people with similar funny looking vans. Not just me that's a nutter then.
Right your problem - I've had numerous leaks in the heater system and replaced them all by using a combination of 15mm copper pipe and yorkshire fittings (90 deg. bends and T pieces) and reinforced "rubber" tubing from factors to connect between copper and original steel pipes. Where exposed I've wrapped them with pipe insulation and insulating tape - all ex-Wickes. My biggest nightmare was the heater pipe that runs across the full width of the van. There are 5 bends in this, all at different angles. After weighing up the cost of a new pipe (and availability) I went for a pipe bending tool (something I had hankered after for years but couldn't justify the expense) again from Wickes or Screwfix for just under £50. Did the job nicely. Painted it with smooth black hammerite to distract the eye of the MOT inspector. Anyway, been on for well over a year, passed MOT and served me well. Pipe bending tool has come in useful for other jobs as well.
HTH
Ian
- (#8565) Ian Dunse, 19 May 03 3:34
Further to Matt Moore's overheating problem.
I had that exact problem with my Space Cruiser.
I had a damaged head gasket, which was pressurising the water jacket, gradually forcing the water out into the Expansion tank.
Once the water level dropped below the pump, it just sat there and boiled, and things got a bit hairy.
It turned out that the gasket had been put on damaged.
It's worth checking new ones carefuly
Pete Bulley
- (#9629) Pete Bulley, 16 Jul 03 10:31