I have seen many posts here on starter motors and the faults associated with them, however I have seen no info on the part number of a new/recon one.

Does anyone have an idea of this before I head off to my electrics dealer.
vehicle is an F89 2.0TD 4WD Super Extra with the 2CT engine
thanks..

- (#3919) Phil, 21 Jul 02

Visit your local ADL Blueprint dealer & ask for a ADT31227 starter motor, or if you're really feeling flushed, visit your Toyota dealer & ask for a 28100-64020. These should fit your vehicle. HTH Rob.

- (#3922) Rob Drinkwater, 21 Jul 02

Recon motors don't have a part no.- just leave yours in, and collect it repaired/ rebuilt in a day or two. Problems tend to be solenoid or occasionally bearing related. Simplest fix is solenoid contacts ( the unit's weak point...)- if they're worn (take the end cover off and look) your auto spark will sell you a contact kit for about a tenner. Or you can order from the dealer...

- (#3923) david miller, 21 Jul 02

thanks fella's
I'll get to work..

- (#3939) Phil, 23 Jul 02

I have just purchased a toyota master Ace Surf, and I'm getting intermittent trouble with the starter moter.thst's what I thought anyway, but have had it checked and they have found nothing wrong but suggest that it could be a lead getting stuck in the gear box which stops the engine starting while in Gear (automatic bye the way). as any one come across this one before. I also would like to be able to buy or download an owners handbook. any ideas thanks James

- (#4052) James Dyodor, 31 Jul 02

A lead getting stuck in the gearbox? That's a good one. I thought a gearbox's 'innards' comprised gears and ATF. I think you should revisit the starter.

Translated Owners manual available from Eurospec2000 and others. URLs available on Townace.com

- (#4053) Ian Dunse, 31 Jul 02

I think you should look in the archives under voltage drop...

- (#4054) david miller, 31 Jul 02

james,
you could be right! i had the same problem recently. tried everything. finally found a slight high resistance on "park/neutral" switch on gearbox. there is a tiny amount of adjustment, but this seems to have done the trick. the switch is located where the gear select cable ataches to gearbox input.
hth. ed.

- (#4056) eddie arrowsmith, 31 Jul 02

Park/neutral switch.... I've posted before that I have found that if I do not switch of in Park I may have the solinoid clunk rather than a starter motor next time I try to start up. That may tie up with the P/N switch, certainly something to look at as I have only followed the starter motor route before. Thanks for that. Clive (not that I've had any problems for over 4 months).

- (#4063) clive, 1 Aug 02

I have problem with the starter motor in my Toyota Townace TD. I got it recon and the problem is still there. The problem was initially intermitant, but now it just want start. All you hear when you switch on the ignition is a click from the solenoid. Please help me, its driving me crazy. The starter motor when removed from the engine and connected to the power suppply works fine but as soon as the load is put it just dies. I have got it checked by AA and a private mechanic. Infact the mechanic took out the starter motor three or four times and everytime he puts back it starts for a couple of times and then fault returns.
Battery is almost new.

- (#9782) A Shaw, 23 Jul 03 19:21

See Ace Answers.
Lots of ideas on this but no real answer as to why there is a voltage drop.
The quickest way to start is to short the feed from the solenoid onto the main power connector on the starter. Disconnect the small lead pull back the rubber boot on the main terminal and touch the exposed end of the small lead on the terminal, reconnect when up and running. You need to have ignition on and you need to be very careful as you are playing with a direct connection to the battery and all of it's power.
Having had this problem I wired in a second starter button via a relay. Feed for this is from the ign circuit but bypasses all the relays that the normal route takes. My own theory is that it's the autobox park/neutral sensor/relay/whatever that is the root of the problem. Not had time to investigate that yet.

- (#9783) Clive, 24 Jul 03 1:25

Having attempted at some length to get to the bottom of this problem, I can tell you it's not the inhibitor switch, nor the ignition switch. A clean, well serviced starter will help, as it requires less current, causing less of a voltage drop.

As Clive says, there's no actual fix for the problem but any amount of band- aids... You can run a piece of wire from the solenoid up into the engine bay, and touch the end of it to the glowplug relay to start the car, or have a relay fitted down beside the starter to reduce the load on the cable.
- (#9784) david miller, 24 Jul 03 1:41

Perhaps not your problem - but sometimes on autos you get same symptom due to inhibitor switch/shift adjustment in the 'P' position. To confirm its not the linkage adjustment just push the gearshift forward or back a bit in the 'P' position and try starting again - or try same in 'N'. I've had a couple of vehicles (not townies) wher this would happen occasionally.

- (#9785) chris turner, 24 Jul 03 7:40

A Shaw
I have had the same problem and my local garage tested but could not fix the motor. Basically what happens is that the contact points which carry the high current for the starter are not making sufficent good contact to enable the starter to do any real work - the motor may work with no load. The solution is to dismantle and grind the solenoid shaft down by about 5mm to allow for the contacts to make good then re-assemble.
If you cant get this done locally I will do the job and test for £50 including return postage - mail me if you are interested.

- (#10075) JenChris, 28 Jul 03 11:27

A Shaw
I just found something in the knowledege base about replacing the worn contacts which may help you - search for "Starter Motor" there.

- (#10076) JenChris, 28 Jul 03 12:03

Hi a shaw,
I have exactly the same problem than you on a 1485 cc toyota lita ace petrol.
Could tell me if you have fix yours problem now.
If yes , how did you manage to fix it

Thanks,
Cyril

- (#10077) Cyril, 28 Jul 03 14:12

I agree that cleaning or replacing the contacts etc within the starter may cure some problems, it is not the case in all. You can read tales of "I've replaced the starter with a new/reconditioned one and still won't start". I suspect with the majority of solenoid clicking starters that if you short the solenoid feed to the main starter feed it will work. This indicates that the starter is working when given full voltage to the solenoid. Somewhere between the ignition switch and the starter the voltage drops to a level that won't pull the solenoid in. When I first had a non starter I took it apart replaced the contacts, cleaned what I could - not that it was dirty - and replaced the battery terminal clamp. Worked fine for a few weeks then clunk. Read a posting from Mr Miller and decided to go for a remote switch, better than getting dirty or wet trying to short the lead in the dark etc..
I've now evolved onto a relay fed from the ign, (so that it is dead when the alarm is on), with a press and release switch on the dash, now starts on the button when it does not work on the key, which is once a month or so.

- (#10078) Clive, 29 Jul 03 1:52

I have a faulty starter in my townace 2L turbodiessel, manual transmision. I am waiting for the replacement to arrive today. However I can't see the way to remove the starter from the engine. Any help would be appreciate
I had spent more than 1000 pounds in repairs only this year and I need to start doing everything by myself
Pleas HELP

- (#10079) Luis, 31 Jul 03 8:32

a couple of bolts go through the bellhousing into the starter. Simple!

- (#10080) david miller, 31 Jul 03 9:31

There is much documented evedence of the infamous clicking starter motor on townies. I have owned one for 3 years and for the past 2.5 years have had a problem intermitantly. 4 call outs to the AA and much turning the key only to be greated by that horrible click then suddenly all is ok.
Finally tracked it down to a cheap immobiliser which was fitted by the garage where I bought it from. So the immobiliser is now immobilised but now starts first time.

- (#11029) steve franklin, 6 Oct 03 19:02

If anyone has startet motor problems e mail me.
I live in southend essex.
Just had my starter reconditioned under £60

- (#11285) Alan, 22 Oct 03 11:11

After driving around all day Thelma (townie) decided not to start when I came out of the local shops. Luckily I have breakdown cover and a very nice man came to my rescue. He knew what the problem was straight away and sorted it out for me in a minute or so...with the help of a hammer! Seems that I have a sticking starter motor which he says is quite a common problem with townies...is this true?

- (#11442) Louise, 31 Oct 03 13:39

Hi Louise,

The answer is yes and no! The townie certainly has a starter problem, but not usually caused by sticking. If you check on Ace Answers the cure is well documented and effective - I can vouch for it! The problem is caused by too low a voltage reaching the starter solenoid, and is cured by fitting a relay in the circuit. I will e-mail you with a description.

- (#11443) Tom Lister, 31 Oct 03 16:31

Hi Louise

Had the same problem last week. Ours has being doing this for a year or so. I have managed to start by gently tapping the starter from the top.
Last week came out of my local hospital to find no starter. This time the tap would not work. AA chap came within 10 mins of calling. Asked the trouble over to the van for his hammer, crawled under, me flicking key, tap tap away.

Tom gave me some advice I hope to try.

BFN Phil

- (#11444) Phil, 31 Oct 03 19:01

I have found that it is possible to start the beast single handed by standing in the passenger well with the engine cover up, position hammer (past all the tubes and wires with care) at the rear rhs of the starter with my right hand and with my left reach past the wheel and turn the key. Now bash with the hammer (keeping key turned) and Robert is your Mother's brother. A heavy Square headed "lump hammer" is ideal for the job. After 10 months of practice, I had it down to 60 seconds from the first "dead click" to having the engine cover back down and me ready to pull away.

- (#11445) Tom Lister, 1 Nov 03 3:44

I have to say that tapping, hitting or causing any sort of shock to modern electic motors is to be avoided, most modern (and I will qualify this by saying that I have not worked on that many japanese car or van type starters) electric motors have permanent magnets stuck to the inside of the case, these are of the compound ferrite powder type which give a very dense magnetic field, they are also very brittle, more so than glass even, and by tapping the case directly you are liable to shatter the magnet which will then drop in on the rotor, stopping it from turning and normally burning out the coils.
So I recommend stripping these motors and seeing why they won't turn, if the brushes are good and a reasonable size then it will normally be a sticking solenoid, which if you are luck can be stripped and carefully cleaned.
I must say beware of testing these type of motor off the car the torque these things are capable of producing make them dangerous without some way of holding them safely.
Hope this helps and saves someone some dollar.
Simon

- (#11446) Simon, 1 Nov 03 10:15

Hi Simon,

I am pretty sure that these are not susceptible to shattering - mine would have given up long ago if that was the case, and plenty of others on this board have confessed to a little gentle starter motor abuse without serious consequences.

Also I would urge people NOT to strip the motor. The reason that it will not turn is well documented (see Ace Answers) and is cured by half an hour's work and a £1.50 relay.

- (#11447) Tom Lister, 1 Nov 03 17:46

I have a starter button wired via a relay and works fine. Prior to this I stipped, replaced what I could and rebuilt the start only for it to fail again after a week.
Now I was starting while talking the other day and it did not start, but I kept the key turned on, it burst into life after quite a few seconds! Not been able to try it again as it's been starting ok.
Any auto electicians out there care to comment as to any harm could be caused by keeping the key turned to start after you hear the dreaded clunk?
Won't apply to me as I have the back up button but may help anyone on that cold wet night.......

- (#11448) Clive (Bristol), 2 Nov 03 1:35

Yup. The solenoid has two windings. A high current one (powered by the key, grounded through the motor's windings) and a low- current hold-in one (in parallel with the motor)
The big pull-in takes loadsa amps and is NOT intended for continuous operation. It'll get HOT- QUICKLY!

Plus there's a chance that the main terminals are nearly made, resulting in an arc/ burn scenario. This is even more likely in the fault condition (or indeed if the battery is low) because the solenoid is meant to engage with a good hard thump. I've seen this firsthand with my own- while priming the injectors after a head job, the battery drained enough for the solenoid to drop out making that 'orrible buzzing/ squealing noise. Smoke issued from the solenoid too...

- (#11449) david miller, 2 Nov 03 2:24

Thanks David.
Forget the key idea, fit a relay, minimal cost and then peace of mind.
Thelma, sorry Louise, if you are Bristol way you are more than welcome to have a look at my setup.
Clive

- (#11450) Clive Bristol, 2 Nov 03 3:03

Quote"Also I would urge people NOT to strip the motor. The reason that it will not turn is well documented (see Ace Answers) and is cured by half an hour's work and a £1.50 relay"Unquote

For those that are teminally stupid I was not advocating stripping the motor without actually making sure the motor is at fault.

And if the motors are not permanent magnet types then they are agricultural and old fashioned, having a power sapping winding instead of a high efficiency super dense magnet, my old fiesta was fitted with a motor of this type, as was my old motorbike and they are much older than most of the vehicles listed here.

I will make sure i add the mcdonalds style warning in future, sorry for not knowing.

PS warning coffee might be hot

- (#11451) Simon, 2 Nov 03 7:43

Well, lookie more closely at the townie's starter and you'll find it's a 2KW reduction gear device, with flat strip- wound field coils.
Once you get over about half- a KW, permanent magnet motors are rare. The Japs are known for producing nice compact high- reving motors with good torque characteristics, but even at that, field coils are the norm.
Heck, the starter in my spanky new Peugeot HDI- engined Suzuki has field coils (and is 2KW as well...)

- (#11452) david miller, 2 Nov 03 13:07

Qoute "For those that are terminally stupid..."

Terminally! I love a good pun.... :-)

Seriously Simon, don't get the hump, but if you read your post it does seem to suggest stripping the motor, and as some of the other posts on this board attest, an awful lot of townie starter motors have been fruitlessly stripped over the years....

PS I thought it was the MacDonalds Hot Chocolate that was lethal

- (#11453) Tom, 2 Nov 03 16:59

Some of the stories may give the impression that it is the starter motor that sticks, and can be fixed with a hard tap. It's not. It's the solenoid that doesn't function properly. It has to pull in firmly to close the final contacts to energise the motor, and they too will usually respond to a hard tap on the casing.
This is another reason for not stripping the motor!
However the solenoid contacts do erode (especially if they haven't been pulling in firmly) and, even with a bypass arrangement to maximise current through the solenoid, you may at some point have to remove the cover to change the contacts.

- (#11526) Dave Mason (Sussex), 3 Nov 03 10:18