after looking through the the townace problem archive i've realised that my 2 litre turbo diesel has a complaint familiar to most owners, loss of coolant.In my case, water is being pushed out of the rad filler cap and top rad hose. so my two questions are
what could be causing this? and does anyone know of a good townace friendly garage/workshop in the midlands area? I have recently had the head skimmed, head gasket replaced and new water pump fitted. thank you, john.

- (#4090) john, 2 Aug 02

I'm glad to get in before the others and echo what I believe a regular visitor to the site will tell you. If it has boiled over before then most of the contributors would recommend a new radiator cap as a starting point because the spring in them has a tendency to weaken after such an incident. It is also the cheapest next stage.

If this still fails to solve it then we need further history of when this water is pushed from the system and why you had the head work in the first place. The next range of faults include localised boiling which has its own possible causes or pressurising of the cooling system in the form of head gasket.

The latter needs no explaination but the former could be things such as

"a small leak in the system" which lessens the coolant in system gradually not allowing vacuum to suck coolant back from expansion tank.

"thermostat faulty" not allowing coolant to circulate fully around system through radiator thus preventing it from loosing heat through air flow.

"viscous coupling" particularly at higher revs such as motorway speeds, no viscous coupling working correctly by pulling air through radiator rather than just turning means insufficient heat loss through air flow again.

"seal on radiator cap unsatisfactory" could mean loss of vacuum resulting in your expansion tank filling up after a number of journeys and your system creating an air pocket allowing boiling to occur.

If you examine the BoK archive you can find details of all of these problems.

- (#4094) Mark, 3 Aug 02

great site need some help wirh coolant loss have changed the thermostat rad cap and water pump. i have to fill the expansion tank about every 2 - 3 days there seems to be a slight leak in the radiator, but my question is now and then the water will gush out from somewhere near the rad lose about a litre then stop. also on a long trip done 450 miles in 2 days and didnt lose a drop of fluid and yet 2 days after driving around town had to start filling up again help ps
not overheating

- (#5283) Andrew Morgan, 27 Aug 02

The small leak may be a big one under certain heat and presure combinations, pressure or heat reduced and it seals up again. Could also be a hose are all the connections tight? As you think you have a leak try getting the rad recored, removal will also highlight any hoses that require replacing. I have found it easy to locate leaks in the dark using a torch, which have been overlooked in daylight.

- (#5310) clive, 29 Aug 02

If you can find a garage with a clever piece of equipment called a U-VIEW, they can add an ultra violet dye to the coolant, run the engine up, then search for the leak, using an ultra violet lamp & goggles, this will show up even a slight external leak, obviously they will charge for their time, but at least you should then know where the leak is, unless of course it is an internal leak (eg via the head). If you can't find anyone with this equipment, e-mail me directly with which town you are in & I may be able to help you with a garage that can help you. HTH Regards Rob.

- (#5311) Rob Drinkwater, 29 Aug 02

My 1994 Townace Super Extra 2.2 TD RWD has run beautifully trouble free for the 14 months I have owned it but it has now lost about half a litre of coolant from the expansion tank over about 600 miles. Power and fuel economy are as good as ever, no trace of overheating, temperature guage does not fluctuate from just below centre point, no water in the oil, no oil in the water, in fact the coolant is a lovely clear green colour. On removing the radiator cap the level is always just below the filler neck, warm up time from cold is the same as it always has been, heater works fine, no ejection of water from the rad cap or the expansion tank. The only thing I have noticed is that the cross member immediately under the bottom of the radiator is some times damp or even slightly wet to the touch when the rest of the vehicle is dry. Could I be correct in assuming that I have a leak in the radiator.
After reading some of the cooling horror stories I have stopped using the vehicle until I get it sorted out.
PS How much coolant is required to refil a TWD 2.2 3CT
Wonderful site for Townace info

- (#5412) George Lothian, 3 Sep 02

Sounds like the rad OK- time for a recore. Not sure about the coolant capacity, though. But if you aim for about 8litres you'll be close...

- (#5413) david miller, 3 Sep 02

Hi everybody, This is my first message on this board and it's because everything has gone pear shaped, I've got a 1991 royal lounge and it keeps overheating after very few miles (10-15) I've changed thermostat,rad cap is there anything else or am I now looking at Head gasket? This was done two years ago when I first bought the car so would it need it again? Also does anybody know what other gaskets I would need as well if I was to do this myself? Also do you know how I can tell if the head bolts are the stretch type or not?
Sorry lots of questions but i'm somewhat peeved at the minute.....

- (#11826) ANDY TERRY, 17 Nov 03 5:30

Hi Terry.
What type of radiator cap did you fit. Was it Toyota's float type cap? or a standard or aftermarket cap?
If I remember correctly, the standard or aftermarket caps don’t last much more than a year before the rubber seal gives out.

Is the 10 to 15 minutes under light load, or motorway driving, or hilly terrain?
If its overheating under normal loads, and you fitted the float type radiator cap, then I would suspect a leak in the system somewhere.

After two years, the coolant starts to become acidic, and will need replacing, although this probably isn’t the cause of your overheating.

Regards
dave Bright

- (#11827) dave Bright, 17 Nov 03 6:38

Hi Dave

The rad cap is the float type as recommended by dealer and it's brand new.

The journeys are under light load reasonably flat terrain, a-roads not motorway.
The coolant has already changed itself, on the isle of wight roads so i agree i don't think it's that,
Would it be worth getting the block pressure tested or is this just a gimmick idea to get you to spend money?.

Regards
Andy

- (#11828) ANDY TERRY, 17 Nov 03 8:49

Hi Andy
I said Terry last time sorry.

If the new radiator cap hasn't solved the problem, then it sounds like you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

If you get a pressure test done on the cooling system, it should confirm that you have a leak, but not where the leak is. You may, or may not see a puddle of coolant under the van, because a small leak will reduce the pressure in the pressurised system to a degree where, even at normal running temperatures, the coolant will boil. This will cause large amounts of coolant to exit the system Via the expansion tank, due to the steam produced whilst boiling.

Even though your coolant has replaced itself, is what's left coloured in any way?

- (#11829) dave Bright, 17 Nov 03 9:22

Hi Dave
I've topped up the coolant again but prior to that it was a green colour, does this mean anything?
Would this pressure test include the head gasket, sorry but i'm not too good at things like that.
Regards
Andy

- (#11830) ANDY TERRY, 17 Nov 03 9:27

Green is not unusual, its probably the original colour of the coolant. The question is what colour is it now. If its clear, then its probably ok, just hasn't got enough coolant. Black would be about the worst news because it indicates that, if its diesel, exhaust gasses are getting into the coolant, and that usually means a cracked head or gasket. Some people have reported orange coolant, and I can't be sure here, but that's possibly contamination from the automatic transmission fluid.

A pressure test to the cooling system will pick up any leak, no matter where it is, even if its the head gasket. The difficulty is in finding it. Some places can add some ultraviolet dye, that shows up under ultraviolet lights, but you have to be able to see where its leaking from. If its the water pump for example, that's not easy to spot because its inside the cam belt cover.

- (#11831) dave Bright, 17 Nov 03 9:55

It's definately not black it seems to be a normal colour with nothing obvious like oil or anything in it,
Basically i'm in a bit of a quandry as I just don't know which way to proceed with this.

- (#11832) ANDY TERRY, 17 Nov 03 11:05

Dont despare! from your description so far, it doesn't sound like a failure of the head or gasket, just that you have a leak somewhere in the system, or perhaps a blocked radiator.
Your options are to get under and around it to try to spot any leaks, and that's not easy if its raining, get a garage or mobile mechanic to have a look, or if you can afford it, take it to Toyota.
Take care not to let it overheat too often, because the likelihood of a cracked head is increased with every overheating event.

- (#11833) dave Bright, 17 Nov 03 11:21

Surely with a leak you would be able to hear it? and the only noise I have heard comes from the middle of the engine, like a high pressure jet. This doesn't sound to hopeful?

- (#11834) ANDY TERRY, 17 Nov 03 13:00

Ok, that could be steam venting through the leak. To look on the positive side, if you can hear it, then you could trace it by the sound, or if you get lucky, you may be able to see it. If its coming from the front of the engine, it could be the water pump, and you wont see that unless you remove the cam belt cover. Its a long job, but the cost of an ADL water pump is less than £40. So it may not be as expensive as you think.

- (#11835) dave Bright, 17 Nov 03 13:16

I can't see the leak but it's coming from halfway along the engine on the right hand side as you stand in front of the vehicle looking backwards?

- (#11836) ANDY TERRY, 17 Nov 03 14:50

Andy. You might be able to see this section of the engine by lifting the rubber shield inside the wheel arch. Behind it, under the injection pump, is the thermostat housing. Also, there is a water pipe running along this side of the engine. I can't remember exactly but, it could feed the rear heater or the oil cooler flange. It's worth a check.

- (#11837) John Davis, 17 Nov 03 15:00

Johns right, the pipe a metal one, and is the rear heater return, which also acts as a thermostat bypass. Also in this area is the temperature sender, but what’s more likely is the feed from the rear of the passenger side of the engine, that feeds the automatic choke. On the fuel pipe. It’s a rubber pipe, and may well be the source of your leak.

- (#11838) dave Bright, 17 Nov 03 15:49

Does it push coolant out of the expansion tank overflow? A small bag temporarily attatched to the overflow pipe will fill with water if it does.
Have you looked for evidence of air bubbles in the coolant?
Both the above would indicate head gasket.
If you are leaking from elswhere, you may also have developed an air lock?
If it overheats in 10-15 mile - any idea how much coolant is lost during this run?

- (#11839) chris turner, 17 Nov 03 18:13

The coolant is pushed out the expansion tank overflow, approx 2-4 litres each time.
When the engine is idling with the rad cap off the coolant is bubbling but not due to boiling as it's not warm.

- (#11840) ANDY TERRY, 18 Nov 03 1:43

Lets just recap here.
My early assumption was that this is a diesel, is this correct?

If the coolant in the filler neck is cold, is it forced out to the expansion tank when the engine starts from stone cold? or is it forced out after a few minutes of idling?

There is a possibility that the thermostat is faulty or jammed shut. If this is the case, it will prevent the hot coolant within the engine from being pumped out to the radiators, so the coolant in the filler neck may well be cold, whilst the coolant in the engine is hot enough to boil. As the coolant in the engine starts to boil, it turns to steam and expands a lot. This puts pressure on the surrounding cooler coolant, and forces it out to the expansion tank. Once all the cold coolant has been forced out, the hot coolant replaces it and is also forced out. As soon as the hot coolant passes the radiator cap, it will no longer be under pressure, and so it will instantly boil and turn to steam. This could well create the "high pressure jet sound" if it is coming from the expansion tank overflow.

- (#11841) dave Bright, 18 Nov 03 3:46

2-4 ltr loss a time? bubbles in cold coolant?
I think its time to get it in a good garage

- (#11842) chris turner, 18 Nov 03 8:16

Those are the symptoms my hiace is showing, get it to a garage and get them to put a sniffer on the coolant tank outlet, tell you straight away if it the head gasket.

I have just worked out, to your yearly running costs, add £20 per week for yearly head repairs.
- (#11843) Simon, 18 Nov 03 12:07