Does anyone know the minimum size plates that can be fitted to import vehicles? DVLA site does not mention imports but i've heard that smaller (bike size) may be legal for imports. If so, this could improve ram airflow to the rads / engine with smaller plates.

- (#5174) Ray Ambler, 20 Aug 02

I recently fitted 12" by 6" USA size plates to my Townie but was pulled by the Men in Blue and told in no uncertain terms that my plates were tottaly illegal. I was told that standard plates with the correct letter spacings must be fitted and if a badge is to be incoporated into the plate it must be a GB or Euro badge of the correct size. No picture badges, ghosting or non standard lettering is allowed. However, if you are the owner of a Pajero you are allowed to fit a non standard plate at the rear and some US cars and Jap cars can only accept 12" by 6" plates usualy at the rear. In these cases non standard plates are allowed.

- (#5207) Bill Dickinson, 20 Aug 02

I read an article in a recent classic car mag that owners of import vehicles are now alowed to fit plates of a similar size to those used in the country of origin.

- (#5208) Rob Storer, 20 Aug 02

Thankyou for the responses. I think that it would be beneficial to find out the legalities. Rob, I too have "heard" the same story about fitting plates the same size as original. Mine now has an original size front plate on and it looks great and does not restrict airflow. (tested flow with large fan in front of vehicle. Big difference !) Do you know which mag the article was in. Cheers -- Ray

- (#5201) Ray Ambler, 20 Aug 02

Front plates
The common UK one is about 520x110mm (20.5x4.5in) and I see some 'aces with these across the grille, particularly when bull bars are fitted. Mine has 285x210 (11x8.5) plates front and back and I see a lot like this. Each type obstructs a different part of the grille. Which is the critical area of the grille I wonder?
12x6in may be standard in USA but does anyone know what is/was fitted in Japan? I see the 'ace intended fiting is 12in wide. If Japan uses 12x6in it would surely still hang over some of the grille.
Ray, you report a big difference. Ww need to know which size/shape you had before?
Assuming cooling and legality are more important than aesthetics, what about fixing higher, on to the bumper?
The bottom of a 285x210mm (if you have one) could still overlap the intended fixing position and be fixed to it as well with 30mm spacers but the top would wave around a bit and partly obstruct the slit air intake under the lights. That air intake has two parts. The larger part on the passenger side is cabin fresh air. What is the smaller central part for, which this suggestion would obstruct?
What about fixing a standard UK 520x110 straight on to the bumper - it won't obstruct anything?

- (#5202) Dave Mason, 22 Aug 02

Regarding the above i will try and get some info from work as i am a boy in blue but not a white hat wearer (traffic)!, i have seen a townie with a standard uk size front stick on plate which was on the lower edge of the bonnet, it looked ok.

- (#5266) Paul Chapman, 22 Aug 02

I couldn't wait till i am back at work on Monday so i phoned the Traffic Dept and this is what i was told:
the letters/numbers should be 3 1/2" tall +- 1mm,and
2 1/2 " wide +- 1/2 mm and 1/2" between digits. obviously some digits cannot be 2 1/2" wide such as the number 1.It is not the plate size that is an issue it is the size of the numbers/letters that needs to be correct regardless or where the vehicle originated from, so you can put your number on a smaller plate if the sizes and spacing is correct.That said the traffic officer i spoke to told me minor variations in number/letter size don't usually cause a problem as long as it is legible and can be read from a distance which i think is 20m. Basically common sense prevails and if your plate is the size of a postage stamp then you will get pulled or if your vehicle commits other offences then a non standard plate may be looked at.HTH
- (#5267) Paul Chapman, 22 Aug 02

UK sized numbers on Japanese style plates are now allowed, the law was changed in 1993, before that you HAD to have standard oblong or square UK sized plates, but now we can have the original sized perspex & backing, with the standard sized numbers. There may be a few plates where this wouldn't all fit on eg
H888 BBB where the numbers are all large, but H188 BBB would take up less space so would be easier.HTH Rob.

- (#5268) Rob Drinkwater, 22 Aug 02

Further searching for info has revealed this....Japanese/American Imports
Imported cars are permitted to have the registration on two lines, WITH MOTORCYCLE SIZED LEGAL LETTERS. The rules governing reflective backing and Euro badges still apply. This means we can use 64mm tall characters instead of 79mm. This reduces the area of the plates noticeably. See this DVLA link.
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/public/consult/reg_marks/regmarks_consult.htm#proposals
Comments please.
Ray

- (#5269) Ray Ambler, 22 Aug 02

Don't think the number plate restricts airflow that much. The air has to make it's way through a tight gap after the grille anyway. And the size of fans we have means that there's loads of airflow through the rad anyway. The way to increase ram effect through the rad would be to improve the sealing of that "tunnel" that the air passes through to get to the rad- any ram air you get at the grille is lost by the gap at the front of the rad.
Mike Flanagan mounted his front plate on the front panel, IIRC.

- (#5270) david miller, 22 Aug 02

If you have to rely on increased ram airflow to keep your townace cool then spare a thought for the hot summer day when you hit the inevitable traffic jam and loose ALL your airflow - concentrate more on increasing the water flow by replacing the stat with a new one and doing dave,s subtle mod to it - see previous threads - if all is well it will result in a tickover temp in the low 80,s instead of the high 90,s -- Jim

- (#5271) J Adgo, 24 Aug 02

I've moved my front plate to the off side of the air vents.....
Is this legal ??

- (#5272) Paul Morgan, 24 Aug 02

Jim, my townie will drive all day without overheating and can comfortably tickover with aircon on for many hours (drying out interior after steam cleaning!). The main reason for looking into improved ram air is that when travelling at 70mph, on an incline, the autobox drops down a gear and the revs go over 4000 then within a matter of seconds the two electric fans burst into full song. There are no water problems, the stat has been tested, viscose fan good. I just think the cooling of the main radiator is insufficient when max power is being developed and stat open. There IS a marked difference with the plate relocated. Ray

- (#5273) Ray Ambler, 24 Aug 02

Ray, have you ever had your injection timing checked? Slightly retarded timing can overload the cooling system...

- (#5274) david miller, 25 Aug 02

Dave, now that's a thought. I know the belt is in the correct position but haven't a clue how to go about checking the timing accurately. I remember reading a thread about it recently but couldn't relate to it. Can you send me the correct figures again and i'll find somewhere in lancs that can check/ set it up. Cheers...Ray

- (#5275) Ray Ambler, 25 Aug 02

You can buy the adaptor and dial gauge for about £30 these days, but any diesel specialist can do it for you. It's a touch awkward, the injection pipes have to come off for access. Spec is 0.67- 0.73mm @TDC. And you want is set to the high end of the spec- in my experience, even slightly above (0.75...)
It shouldn't change by itself, but a slight stretch in the timing belt will retard it.
More advance means that the burn happens in the cylinder- if it's too retarded, it's still burning as it enters the manifold!

- (#5276) david miller, 25 Aug 02

Thanks for the info David. Today I repeated high speed (75mph) uphill run at high revs and the viscose fan could be heard to load up. There was no signs of the two electric fans bursting into life. The only differance---No restrictions to the front spoiler/ grill. Ray.

- (#5277) Ray Ambler, 25 Aug 02

ttt
Ray, I've just replaced my front plate with a "motorcycle" sized one(7x9"), and I can see that it does make a difference. With my setup, a degree or two cooler at m/way speeds for sure. But I'm surprised to hear that there's a difference with the viscous fan in place...
I think the issue here is that the power needed to overcome air resistance increases by the square of speed, and the townie gets to the stage (even with the viscous fan) where an increase in speed is not accompanies by an increase in airflow to match the extra power absorbed (and remember that the viscous fan is a viscious circle- increase revs, increase power of engine ,increase heat= increase fan speed= need more power etc...)

- (#5377) david miller, 2 Sep 02

Going onto the cooling system thread again (and there seem to be at least 3 threads running concurrently) I remember someone mentioning the gap around the radiator & the fact that this could cause the air to go around rather than through the fins of the rad, on close inspection of our Townie, there is some thick foam rubber fixed all around the rad, this prevents any 'escape' of air & will help to push air through as opposed to around the rad, is this standard, or has a previous owner added this? There is also another issue here, it could be that the very shape of the vehicle is a problem, as it is so flat at the front, it could actually cause a negative pressure at points on the front of the car, in other words no air flow through the big vent under the bumper, it's all going around it, additionally the air drawn in through the under bumper vent must go through the horizontal radiator and out of the bottom of the car, so the electric fans on this rad must blow, then any remaining air goes through the upright rad, with the visco unit or electric fan sucking the air through this rad (I think I got it right) If you shine a torch through this grille, you can only see a few square inches of the vertical rad, it seems a fairly tortuous route to the rad, so most of the air will take the easy route, out of the horizontal one & under the car, can't really see an easy way to 'scoop' more air through the vertical rad. I might have to remove the vertical rad & investigate it further. Rob.

- (#5378) Rob Drinkwater, 2 Sep 02

Rob, my Masterace has the foam inserts around the perimeter of the vert rad. I've noticet that the bumper profile on the townies is quite different to the Masteraces. There are deflection scoops moulded into my bumper (lower section) and a smaller "grill area" on the top section. Sustained motorway cruising at 70/75ish now gives only occasional loading of the viscose fan. It seems to gently load up and then reverts to a coasting mode shortly after. This happens slightly more often when a/c is on and pulley engaged. Air con fans have not fired up at full speed (105 deg sensor) since fitting single line number plate with 64mm characters. Ray

- (#5379) Ray Ambler, 2 Sep 02

Just returned from pushing the bus to the limits. Urgent family woes forced me to be in SE London when I live in Bristol. It was dark, cool damp air and late at night, loaded with family and dog put the pedel to the metal all the way. Fan, turning up the V8 sound, switching in and out. Temp guage only reaching half way and dropping down when fan fully engages. So no overheating, no noticable drop in fuel comsumption and made the 182 miles in 2 hours 25 minutes. Came back at my normal 65 ish and it was so relaxing! The low oil light came on yesterday so I assume she burnt some, no leaks spotted. I was able to keep the pace up as the wife had dozed off within 10 minutes of starting on the M4! Townace are brill or what!

- (#5546) clive, 20 Sep 02

I had a similar experience a couple of weeks ago Clive. Mercy dash up the M1. 130km + . My heart was in my mouth all the way and a picture of the temperature gauge burned onto my pupils. No immediate problems I just hope there is nothing long term.

- (#5547) Ian Dunse, 20 Sep 02

Townace are brill or what!
Townace are brilliant, no question! At least mine has been so far, and we (me, wife and kids) love it ever more by the day (or should I say by the trip?)
Saturday morning
Lift passenger seat, check oil and coolant levels, everything is ok, fasten seat belts and there we go, south and west to Swaziland, some 500km of up and down mountains and mountains, roundtrip), purpose of journey
for me, just another day in paradise (aka townie), for wife and 13yr'ol daughter, for their ultimate pleasure and sole reason of existence in life
corner to corner, massive shopping.
Though my only "improvement" on the townie, was to lift number plate to bumper, I did notice the temp gauge (the original one, sorry guys) living by 2 to 3 dots to left from center, as opposed to it's almost central position, specially when wife’s foot was heavy on pedal, uphill or overtaking, and forcing the undisputable ding-dong to settle the usual domestic discord to follow. Also, there was less viscous "locking" (no V8 sound, hehehe) and the fuel consumption was good for a 2.0L EFI (In one of the trip legs I filled in, zeroed and filled in back at 106.5km for 10.2 liters, which I guess makes 29.67 mpg). Back late at night, I parked her at exactly the same spot as before the trip, and this morning, checked all levels with the same happy readings, and no drops and no spills.
Townace are brilliant!
- (#5593) Manecas, 22 Sep 02

I'm happy to hear that your townie has benifitted from your relocated number plate. I've done about 2000km with a reduced size plate in front of the bumper and so far not needed to add any water or put on ear defenders ! Most of my driving is motorway at near galaxy speed. Ray

- (#5636) Ray Ambler, 23 Sep 02