(Home) Oveheating and engines

Guys

Some advice and help please. My wife has been driving a Masterace Surf (1989 vintage) for over a year now. No problems until we took it on holiday. Had timing belt done before we went (100,006 KMS) and set off from Liverpool to Italy. Overheated once on the way there, and again on the way back. Both on a hill over two miles long in Switzerland. (Same hill there and back funnily enough) Rest of the time ran happily in 35 degrees around Italy without a whimper. Cruised at around 70 every day without crying as well.

My questions are:

1. Is there a recommended suggestion for increasing the cooling to avoid such situations. (Yes I am a newbie on this site, so apologise for possibly repeating someone else's question)

2. Mine is a 2lt Turbo Diesel. What engines will fit into this space? Any of them bigger than 2.0?

Thanks in advance guys. My wife absolutely adores this car, and to get rid of this minor annoyance would really cheer me up.

Martyn
- (#5322) Martyn Davies, 1 Sep 02

Re cooling, we're working on it- the system is marginal, everything has to be tip-top, otherwise you'll have problems. There are various ways of "improving"- electric fan, increased coolant flow, improved gauge. But there's no "cure all" as yet.
What you've seen is the system running out of puff, viscous fan locked up (hopefully), a/c fans on, stat open full. Your fix might be simple, eg the rad cap is starting to weaken...
The biggest standard engine in the townie is the 3C, 2.2l diesel. But there's not much difference between 2c and 3c in terms of performance.

- (#5323) david miller, 1 Sep 02

Martyn. I am sure that David is right re your intemittent problem. It sems to me that these cooling sytems are predominatly designed for the sedate 100KPH max which prevails in Japan. However, with careful adjustments, and careful driving, the marginal cooling limits can be extended. I suggest that you check the threads in the Ace Answers (Link available on this BOK)
where you will find much information on this and other aspects of our type of vehicle.

"My wife absolutely adores this car, and to get rid of this minor annoyance would really cheer me up."

I hope that you are talking about the car !!!
- (#5324) John Davis, 1 Sep 02

Rarified air at altitude may have played its part. I used to live in Munich and had a few heating and running problems over the hilly bits. Did you pass any cars by the wayside on said hill?

- (#5366) clive, 2 Sep 02

As we all seem to agree, the cooling system when perfect, with good flow from the pump, fully working rad cap, fully working stat, correctly operating visco unit, no sludge in radiators, is pretty much on the limit, there seems to be insufficient air flow at speed, but it keeps cool enough at low speed, why then is this the reverse of most other vehicles, on your average common or garden car, they require forced air flow in traffic, but when running at motorway speeds, would get to cold if it wasn't for the thermostat preventing cold coolant from entering the engine. I have shone a torch through the air intake grille in the bumper, there is only a fraction of the vertical rad visible, and the air must be pushed down through the horizontal rad by ram air, as well as blown by the fans. What we really need to sus out is how we can get more air forced through the vertical rad at speed, any suggestions? Also why did Toyota fit two radiators on these vehicles in the first place, most cars are quite adequately cooled with just one (excepting formula one cars maybe)?
- (#5367) Rob Drinkwater, 2 Sep 02

rob, i noticed the contrary heating as well. came on standing traffic on motorway, having already been running for a couple of hours. i almost decided to pull onto hard shoulder before i overheated, but stuck with it. to my surprise temp gauge came down... yes even the toyota gauge does move from middle occasionally! when we got moving again it went back up to its usual position.

ps. formula 1 mentioned in a townace website? that extra 8hp is going to your head. ;-)

- (#5368) eddie arrowsmith, 2 Sep 02

"any suggestions"

Rob. When I did my head/gasket etc a year or so ago, I made sure that all of the things which you mention were as good, operationally as they could be. The flush, with the radiator out of the vehicle, was particularly revealing re debris etc. I did investigate fitting an aluminium air "scoop" in the front axle area and, at the time, did feel that there were enough "openings" in the complexity of parts in this area, to fit a scoop which would direct more "ram" air flow towards the vertical radiator. After all, Toyota have fitted a very good scoop (shroud) on the fan side of the radiator and I still feel that there might be some worth in constructing a "front" scoop, suitably meshed against debris. On my 4WD, even with the front diff etc, there are a couple of fairly direct openings where, if ram air were directed correctly, I feel, could assist cooling

- (#5369) John Davis, 3 Sep 02

John has mentioned the scoop/shroud on the fan side of the vertical radiator. I recall some indifference to this being expressed in the past. A ducted fan will have much more effect than one spinning freely in that cavity. I think it may be one more thing that it is important to have right.

I tend towards Eddie's view that the cooling system is most needed in traffic jams. Many owners are on record as consistently driving fast, and even towing. So if it's working properly a Townace can take it.

How can we be sure ours is working properly? I've been investigating the poor Toyota temperature gauge. See "Temperature Gauge Investigation and Modification" in the Cooling folder in Ace Answers.

- (#5370) Dave Mason, 3 Sep 02

Hi All

Thanks for the input and general advice. Fingers crossed I think I've cured it. Picked up a new radiator cap today. Fitted it when I got home from work, than ragged the engine rotten. 4500 rpm in every gear getting warmed up, 80mph down the dual carriageway, 90mph up the motorway, round the country lanes with overdrive off and aircon on. Fan was more on than off. Christ it's noisy. It bubbled yesterday from lesser treatment. Stopped back at the house and lifted the bonnet. Gentle ticking of hot engine (normal) but no bubbling it seems. Let's hope that this is the answer.

Thanks again. This is a useful site to say the least.

Cheers

Martyn

- (#5408) Martyn Davies, 3 Sep 02