I have a 4WD Turbo Diesel Town Ace. It has broke it's cam belt. I have looked around to see what is involved when they break and can't really find much apart from this http://yarchive.net/car/timing_belt.html of which seems to say that ALL toyota diesels are ok if the Cam Belt Breaks.
Well I ain't about to take that a pure gospel and would love to hear from anyone who knows about this.
I would really appreciate any help and advise to what this involves and costs on a cam belt break to get the engine working again.
Many thanks,
From Vince.
Vincent.Nye@NYElectronic.force9.co.uk
- (#5857) Vince, 20 Oct 02
P.S. I think they call it a cam belt or may be a timing belt or whatever. Its the Belt that drives the very bottom wheel on the engines (seems but don't quote me) to be a 'Big End'(?) drive belt.
Well sorry it's the belt that drives the very bottom wheel of all the belts and the wheels on the engine.
Thanks (sorry about my lame engine knowledge, I am not a mechanic and am just trying to find out what is involved and not be ripped of by repair garages/mechanics).
Thanks From
Vince.
- (#5858) Vince, 20 Oct 02
ok, well all toyota diesels are "interference" engines, meaning that valves and pistons collide when the belt breaks. what speed was the engine doing when it broke? how old was the belt?
cheapest test is the put a new belt on and try to turn the engine over by hand. if you can wind it through at least two rotations, then try to start it. if it starts and runs, have a compression test done.
if it's ok at all these stages, you're very lucky!
if the engine won't turn at all check (this is an extremely long shot...) that the injection pump , oil pump, and water pump are all free to rotate before...
otherwise, you're going to have to remove the head, where you will find bent valves, possibly damaged head and pistons, and worst case bent conrods also.
hth
- (#5859) david miller, 20 Oct 02
Vince, no need to apologise about your limited engine knowledge but from your postings there seems to me to be reasonable doubt whether it is the cam belt that's broken.
I say that because there are a lot of belts "down there" and the timing/cam belt is one of the least visible. It is wide and flat compared to the others - which are so-called "V"-belts. And it has teeth which enable it to do the precise timing function.
Yes, the inconvenience, damage and cost if the timing belt breaks (while running) mean that any owner who isn't certain it's been changed properly in the past 5 years or 50,000m (80,000km) should be getting it done.
- (#5888) Dave Mason, 21 Oct 02
Thanks David and Dave :)
Dave, I can cleary see the belt is missing. It does not have teeth on the cogs. It seems to be just one cog without teeth (from lots of other belts on that cog mech) to another cog without teeth of which is the most bottom one of all cogs. (hope that is undestandable). It seems to the bottom most cog seem to go into the actual sump area of the engine.
The reason why I am asking is not to also be ripped off for the renovation of this Excellant MPV but I bought the MPV for £500 with the full intentions of getting the vehicle fully restored.
Would this belt (now that you have really clarified the timing/cam belt thing with teeth, I can see/understand it is NOT the timing/cam belt) stop the vehicle from running.
To give further information the person I bought the vehicle off of was traveling on the motorway and heard some banging noise then pulled over and was towed off of the motorway (this is the information I was given by the person). Yet as you have now clarified, it is NOT the timing/cam belt. Its a bottom pully belt with the belt driving a wheel (without teeth) on the bottom of the engine.
Many Thanks Dave & David, your informations have been highly appreciated.
Thanks.
From Vince.
- (#5895) Vince, 21 Oct 02
Vince, you have a broken/missing drive belt. One of three that transfer power from the engine to drive the alternator, power steering pump and the air con unit.
Can not remember which one of the alternator or AC goes around the bottom pully. One will give no charge and is not sensible to run without it, the other will not run the AC and is safe to run without it. If my memory has clouded and it's the power steering pump you will have to have the arms of Hercules to steer the thing.
Did the person you bought it from say the timing belt was broken? If so this other belt may be a red herring and the way to check is to remove the inspection cover the humped thing next to the oil filler cap, a few clips and it lifts off and there should be the toothed belt that can not be pulled out. If that is there it's all down hill from here. If its not there stop now and contact a mechanic/garage and find out the damage/cost to repair, do not attempt to start it. If it is there it's all down hill from here and read on.
Have you tried to start it? I guess that it will run, if 3/4 dash lights stay on its the alternator drive (and probably a flat battery to begin with). If ok try a drive and see if steering is easy (I mean requires no effort at all one finger should do it), then get it to a garage and ask them to change all the drive belts - if one has gone perhaps the others are about to.
Oh and £500 for one of these is a gift, even if you have to replace the engine still a gift. The cost of replacing the engine should be in the Ace Answers.
If you live near Bristol I'm happy to come a take a look. Clive
- (#5896) Clive, 22 Oct 02
Hi Clive, David, Dave,
I have flipped the cover back as described above and the cam/timing belt is all ok. It is not broken at all. Yet looks a bit old.
Therefore what I am going to do is get the vehicle in for a diagnosis. It seems just the bottom belt has broken and is missing.
Due to seeing that the cam/timing belt was there I decided to spin it over. Now the vehicle has been standing for over a year apart from getting it here in London on the back of a flat bed recovery vehicle. The vehicle spins over and keeps wanting to go to start then at the last minute decides not to.
The person I purchased the vehicle off of said he was traveling on a motorway and then heard banging noises so pulled over. He suspected the big ends.
Therefore if he is correct in saying it should start yet after standing for a year would be hard to start.
I am therefore going to get the vehicle in for a diagnosis and it does not seem as bad as needing a NEW engine. It seems it just needs the belts all changing, hot plugs (of which I suspect may be why it will not start), oil, filters, etc and at worse big ends. (well heres hoping anyway).
Many Thanks for all your help with regards to this.
It has been highly appreciated and it has really helped so much, (lame engine me) I thought it was the cam/timing belt. (lol)
Well thanks Clive, David and Dave.
Take Care and hope to speak to you all soon on other matters.
Thanks From Vince.
- (#5897) Vince, 22 Oct 02
Vince, glad you're making progress. You will probably benefit from going to Ace Answers and looking at two particular places. (1) The Faults/Noises folder has several slightly surprising stories of what does and doesn't cause a banging noise. (2) The Engine mechanical / Belts folder / "Belt configuration" shows the 2C# arrangement of the V-belts - your reference to the most bottom pulley (not cog) may be to the IP=Idler pulley which would mean its an aircon belt that's broken. There are also discussion of problems with all the belts.
- (#5898) Dave Mason, 23 Oct 02
This isn't the old problem of the front crankshaft pulley coming loose again is it?
- (#5917) Rob Drinkwater, 23 Oct 02
Thanks Dave I will go there now and take a look at them 2 in Ace Answerws.
Rob hopefully it will explain that in Ace Answers and I can find out some more info about it there.
Thanks all.
From Vince.
- (#5918) Vince, 24 Oct 02