O.K. my wife was driving the townie yesterday morning, had just cleared a hill when the engine just cut out. At the same time, from the front of the cockpit and acrid, acidy smelling smoke came out.

My initial repoonse to the fault was the cam belt, but that is all intact and ready for parade. Now, thinking about it, it sounds like something electrical has gone breasts skywards in a big fashion.

Any help or pointers on what could have failed, how to check if it is, and how to either FIX it, or get a replacement part would be ace.

Cheers for any help, Steve.

- (#6417) Steve, 17 Dec 02

Umm, we'll need a bit more here- petrol or diesel, manual or auto...

- (#6418) david miller, 18 Dec 02

Usually electrical when this kind of thing happens. What does/does not check out when you turn the ignition on? Where did the smoke come from - dash, steering column, driver, passenger side? As David says give us a bit more to work from.

- (#6419) Ian Dunse, 18 Dec 02

OK, it is a 20TD, 1988 auto 4wd Townie.

From what I can decipher from the misses, the smoke came from right at the front of the cabin, floor level. I have checked the Glow Plug Voltage and on swithcing on the ignition, I get 9.5v, which I think is a little low.

Please, any help will be great, at first I thought it was the immobilser, but the people who fitted it assure me that it would shut the whole alarm down, not just one channel.

Where to is the fuel pump solenoid fitted?

- (#6420) Steve, 18 Dec 02

OK. the glow voltage sounds not too bad, there's a fair voltage drop anyway. Do all the warning lights come on? I'm thinking ignition switch or related wiring- it runs down the colums, and the main loom passes out of the cabin via a grommet in the floor in behind the heater, roughly central. The fuel pump solenoid is on top of the rear section of the pump, single wire coming from it. Should be 12v straight from the switch (via your immobiliser...), probably through the "engine" fuse
Run a fused 12v feed to the solenoid (disconnect the original in case of shorts), and see if the engine starts.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that if it's not an immobiliser fault, it's something caused by the fitting of it.

- (#6421) david miller, 18 Dec 02

OK, been in the van, I have checked the two circuits with which the immobilser works on, and they are fine, starter motor turns, also disconnected the loom to the solonoid valve on top of the injector pump (front end of the pump - cam belt end), I get a 5.5v and 1.7v reading from the two LIVE pins.

All the normal warning lights come on, and the glow light goes off after a short time too.

p.s. checked with the alarm installers, they have assured me if one circuit of the immobilser goes the alarm shuts down.

- (#6422) Steve, 18 Dec 02

No, that's not the solenoid, you're testing either the tacho sender or the throtle position sender. The solenoid is at the rear of the pump with one wire retained by a small nut. It's down below and between the throttle and kickdown cables. An easy check is to disconnect the plug going to the pump with the ign. on, you should hear a click as you connect and disconnect the plug.
Your alarm installers are telling you what happens if the alarm fails and it senses the failure, BTW. This sounds more like a wiring fault. What two circuits does the immobiliser break?

- (#6423) david miller, 19 Dec 02

Would the relay for the Solenoid be under the dash somewhere, I have made sure there is glow, there IS compression, the only other thing is fuel.

- (#6424) Steve, 19 Dec 02

Don't think there's a relay at all. Through a fuse, straight from the ign. switch. Have you checked all the fuses and fusible links? (some beside battery, some behind driver's seat) The ignition fusible links should be AM1& 2
And do you have 12v at the solenoid or not?
Check carefully for chafing or burning in the loom from the ign. switch down to where the main loom exits through the floor.

Now, I've compared the varoius wiring diagrams that I have (none are correct, unfortunately) and it seems that some models do have an ignition relay, and the solenoid feed goes through the glowplug controller on others... So you've some searching to do!

- (#6425) david miller, 20 Dec 02

I’m not sure whether this info will be of any use but here goes.
I had a Citroen BX 2Ltr turbo Diesel that developed a very similar fault. Fortunately it was a company car with AA cover, so I called them out. Now bearing in mind that this incident was 12 years ago and my memory is a little hazy at times, the AA chap said something like this.

Diesel ignites on pressure not by way of a spark, therefore in order for the engine to stop when the ignition is turned off, there was a solenoid fitted to the fuel line. When he checked the operation of the solenoid, it all seemed to be ok because it was clicking with the ignition. When he dismantled it he found that the plunger that cuts the fuel supply had detached itself from the shaft of the solenoid and, as a fail safe device, had fallen down in to the seating to cut off the fuel. The remedy here was simply to screw the plunger back onto the shaft and it all worked fine.


Good luck. and I hope you sort it soon.

dave Bright
- (#6593) dave Bright, 20 Dec 02

OK, I have checked the Solenoid feed and I get about 10.5v there. I got continuity of 500Ohms on all four glow plugs, there is continuity between the glow plugs and the resistor terminals.

I also slackened of one of the fuel rails to the injector, Fuel pumps out accordingly.

HELP!!!!! what else is there???

- (#6594) Steve, 21 Dec 02

10v at the solenoid, it should start (can you hear it click?). Your glow plugs sound duff tho. Should only see an ohm or two, they draw like 8A each, 40-ish in total. There's no glowplug wiring at the front of the cab tho- that must be unrelated to the original problem.
Even with no glow plugs, a townie WILL start from cold- It'll take a fair bit of churning, but it'll start.

So off the the factors for a set of plugs then!

- (#6595) david miller, 21 Dec 02

There seems to be a cable coming from a junction box with what looks lika relay and electrical connections on it, it sits under the air intake duct at the rear of the engine, this cable/pipe seems to go over the cylinder head, and then it is broken, what is the pipe, and could that be it???

- (#6596) steve, 21 Dec 02

OK, in the this picture this Ace Answers website it is the cable that runs just below the oil dipstick, and how much will a set of Glow Plugs cost me??

- (#6597) steve, 21 Dec 02

OK, everything at the engine seems fine, fuel to the injectos, voltage to the glow plugs, thing turns over fine.

What else could cause the engine to cut out (electrical that is) and then stop it from restarting????

Most moblie mechanics are not willing to touch the darn thing.

- (#6598) Steve, 28 Dec 02

Have you replaced or verified the glowplugs? If there's fuel to the injectors, that confirms the electrical side of fuel delivery to be OK. If you've got voltage to the gp's, then that's OK. So, as diesels only need fuel, air, and heat, there's nothing else electrical.
The only issue could then be compression or timing. Neither are under electrical control. Have you perchance taken the upper timing cover off to verify timing marks match up?

Does the engine sound like it's turning over as before, and do any warning lights dim out while cranking?

While cranking does it even try to catch, and is there any smoke out of the exhaust? If so, what colour?
Try to start with the airclener disconnected. It's a long shot, but perhaps whatever was burning was outside the cab, but ingested, blocking the airfilter???

- (#6599) david miller, 28 Dec 02