this time i think i might have really screwed up . . .
the victim vehicle is my wife's 1988 toyota masterace, 2.0 litre petrol efi.
i was in the process of jump starting the vehicle, whose battery was
completely flat. the mistake i made was getting my "-" and "+" the wrong
way round.
the starter motor still turns over but there is no hint of a spark. a green flag appointed mechanic has looked at the car, couldn't find a fuse box and helpfully concluded "it may take a week to rewire the car, best you buy a new one". and "the ecu is knackered" prompted by no ecu light at lamp test. i phoned blueprint spares who suggested more likely i have knackered the electronic ignition module which may cost in the region of £30-£40 to replace, and my local motor factors (camberley auto factors) can test it for
me if i can find it and unplug it.
i would dearly welcome input from anybody familiar with this type of vehicle in particular or this type of stupid act in general. my starter for 10
points is "where is the fusebox" with the bonus question "where is the electronic ignition module and how do i recognise it?"
all and any help appreciated,
tia,
mal
- (#7131) mal farrelle, 11 Feb 03
First port of call is to check the large fusable links behind the driver's seat, if they are all in tact then all the fuses under the dash, in the centre (behind coolbox if fitted) if all these are in tact then it is possible that you have damaged some wiring or blown up other things. Incidentally, whilst you're in you local CAF, buy some Sealey jump leads with the built in protection circuit, prevents such an error again. HTH Rob.
- (#7132) Rob Drinkwater, 11 Feb 03
Rob, great response - thanks. I checked the two locations you suggested:
I checked behind the driver's seat where I found two access panels. Behind one of these is a small plastic box which flipped open to reveal 4 large fuses - 2 x 20 A (or were they 30 A?), one x 40 A and one x 60 A. All appear intact (though I can't dislodge the 60 A fuse).
I also found a fuse box under the radio (behind the hot/cold box). I checked all the fuses (maybe 15 or 20 of them) and the very last one is obviously blown. This is in the bottom right position and is a 15 A device. I have replaced same but still have a flat battery and do not intend to attach jump leads in the dark again! I am not optimistic that this fuse is stopping the car from starting - can anybody confirm the function of the 15 A fuse fitted in the bottom right position in this fusebox?
In the words of the late, great Spike Milligan . . . "What am I going to do now?"
Thanks,
Mal
- (#7133) mal farrelle, 11 Feb 03
it'll say on the lid...
- (#7134) david miller, 12 Feb 03
I tried to start the car with the broken fuse replaced - as I feared that wasn't it.
When the ignition is switched "on" and the lamps all light, should the engine lamp also be lit? Mine doesn't.
TIA,
Mal
- (#7135) mal farrelle, 12 Feb 03
Think you need to remove the battery, charge it up over night & retry the vehicle. I'm confused by what you term as the 'engine lamp' when you turn the ignition to on, do you mean the MIL (malfunction indicator light)? Once the battery is charged you can see if the engine will turn over, if it does but will not start, then you need to start with the engine management system to see where the fault is with that. HTH Rob.
- (#7136) Rob Drinkwater, 12 Feb 03
Rob,
Thanks again for the response.
I put a charged battery in and the engine turns over beautifully. The car has always been the finest starter I have seen and it just won't fire up (consistant with the GReen Flag mechanic's assertion that no plugs are receiving a HT input).
The lamp I refer to as the engine lamp must be the MIL lamp - its a graphic that looks like an engine and is orange (from memory). It doesn't light at all, especially worrying (?) when the ignition is turned to the first position and all other lamps light? Should the MIL light at lamp test and what might be implied by its failure to do so?
My wife has contacted a specialist garage, All Fours in Farnborough who deal with Jap imports, the best they suggested was I get the vehicle transported to a main Toyota dealer and open my wallet (which is empty).
Is there anything I can do, or can anybody recommend a competent auto electrician prepared to come have a look at the car for me for a reasonable fee? I am based in Farnborough, Hampshire. At the moment I have a grounded wife and 4 kids with no prospect of a fix and life isn't as happy as it could be.
TIA,
Mal
- (#7137) mal farrelle, 13 Feb 03
I am afraid that this doesn't look promising, however it's a good sign that the starter turns the engine over, that would suggest that the main wiring is OK, if all the fuses are in tact then it must be engine management related, not necessarily the ECU though, we can probably get your ECU tested for you, but there would be a charge for this & would take a couple of days to get done, drop it into Camberley Auto Factors @ Hawley Lane & they can send it away. Otherwise you will need to get it to a competent diagnostic garage. DON'T take this as a 100% recommendation, but you could try the following to see if they can sort your problem out:-
Yateley MOT Centre
Plough Road, Yateley
01252 876231
OR
Paul Howd Mobile Tuning
Farnham
01252 722639 or 07836 220406
Both companies have quite a bit of diagnostic equipment & hopefully can help you. HTH Rob.
- (#7138) Rob Drinkwater, 13 Feb 03
If it's an easy task to remove the ECU I will drop it in at CAF as suggested, otherwise I will try the two garages recommended.
Would you please advise what the ECU looks like, where I find it and how I reomove it - or is it too difficult a job? It would be useful to know where the ECU should receive +/- 12 V, I can check for presence of voltage.
Thanks again,
Mal
- (#7240) mal farrelle, 14 Feb 03
I'll have to hand you over to someone else now, I have a diesel, so couldn't tell you where the ECU is mounted, if you do find it thougjh, I may be able to find the pin data for you so you can see what pins do what on the ECU, if it happens to be the same as say a Carina ECU. Rob.
- (#7241) Rob Drinkwater, 14 Feb 03
Help urgently required. Local Toyota garages won't help and to date I have not found any private individuals capable of diagnosing the problem.
Thanks to Rob Drinkwater for all his helpful advice on my other thread.
I believe I have damaged something in the engine management system by jump starting the car with reversed connections. The car is a 1988 Masterace Surf, 2.0L Petrol EFI.
I have power to the ECU, Engine and Charge fuses under the dash, all of which are intact. The engine turns over. I have no spark. The engine malfunction light does not light at ignition switch pos I (lamp test)
As the fusebox receives power and the fuses are intact I suspect the wiring is fine. My hope is that the electronic ignition module is knackered and the ECU isn't. I don't know what theses components look like or how to locate them.
Any and all advice on how to proceed or offers of practical help (I'm in Farnborough, Hants) would be greatly appreciated, my wife & 4 kids are grounded without the car.
TIA,
Mal
- (#7230) mal farrelle, 15 Feb 03
if there's no power to the fuses, it must be more fundemental... check again the fusible links on the bulkhead, then check for some more beside the battery (at the front of the battery?)
my diagram for an efi van probably differs, so check those out before delving deeper. next stops would be the efi relay and circuit opening relay in toyota parlance.
hth
- (#7231) david miller, 15 Feb 03
Thanks David but I do have power to the ECU fuse, Engine fuse and Charge fuses under the dash, all of which are intact.
- (#7232) mal farrelle, 15 Feb 03
sorry, missread that. Next move onto the relays. One should switch the ignition supply to the ecu. It's in series with the "circuit opening relay" otherwise known as the fuel pump relay. The coil in both is supplied from the ecu, which should be getting a feed from the battery via the efi fuse.
Oh, and the ecu and associated gubbins should be inside the passenger "B" pillar.
I have a pinout of the ecu as used in the American Van, might be same.
- (#7233) david miller, 15 Feb 03
While rumaging around for Relays I found a small, auxillary fusbox mounted to the left of the main box. In it are two fuses, one marked "ST", the other "EFI". The "EFI" fuse was blown! I replaced it and then at lamp test the MLI lamp lights. The car started (reluctantly) and ran for a couple of minutes, but very erratically (seemed to be mis firing and backfiring into the airbox - least that's how it sounded). The car stalled and now won't start at all -there is no power to the starter and all the dash lights are out (ie Oil, Radiater, MLI, Charge, etc). There is still power to all the fuses which all still seem to be intact.
Can anybody point me at a wiring diagram for this vehicle, please?
TIA,
Mal
- (#7242) mal farrelle, 18 Feb 03
can't help you with an exact diagram, but from those that I have, you should be looking around the circuit opening relay I'd think, it controls the fuel pump...
- (#7321) david miller, 18 Feb 03