Hi.

I have read through the website and found that lots of people have had problems with emmissions. The general view from everyone is that a screw needs to be turned clockwise ????

Can someone help me with a labeled photo so I can find it please.

Also people keep refering to a Disel specialist. What should i search for on yell.co.uk ?

One last point any mobile macanics to recomend for juntion 24 of the M25 ?

- (#7554) Andrew, 6 Mar 03

look at the back of the pump , just above the 4 injector pipes is a long screw held secure with a locknut - turn it no more than an eighth of a turn at a time and keep notes . if you want a pic e mail me and i will take one for u from the scrap townace i have - (now in bits)
adgo6@aol.com

- (#7555) j adgo, 6 Mar 03

My car only failed on that but the guy said he put some treatment in the tank and let it run and it then was okay on the reading. he said through making short trips it blocks the injectors don't know but he said it's fine now.

- (#7556) shirley, 6 Mar 03

I don't know what you would look for on "Yell" but, every town has a diesel specialist. Most garages do not have their own diesel pump calibration equipment, nor are most able to test/rebuild/renovate injectors so,they send this work out to a local specialist. You will find a Lucas Centre in most larger towns, or, look in the Yellow Pages (Is Yell the Internet version ?) under diesel test centre or similar. Also you could ask at one of the smaller garages where they send their pumps and injectors for calibration

- (#7557) John Davis, 7 Mar 03

Umm, but before you go near the pump, have you replaced the air and fuel filters and changed the oil?

- (#7558) david miller, 7 Mar 03

david is right!.make sure you change the filters and change the engine oil and make sure that the oil is on maximum on the dip stick.I did this after mine failed its last mot with a reading of 5.8 emissions.when I took it back for a re-test, after doing the above, the emissions had dropped to a good pass reading.I did not touch anything else.

- (#7989) kevin bateman, 7 Apr 03 14:04

To back up what Dave said,I also failed on emissions.
I changed the fuel filter,ran a can of Pro Tec diesel
System Cleaner through the tank & it passed with flying
colours!!!

- (#8848) Alan Whitney, 1 Jun 03 13:09

Try this site for fuel pump info.

- (#8849) Phil, 1 Jun 03 16:20

Has anyone any comment to make re the lack of power with the 2C-T engine, if the fuel pump is adjusted to obtain an MOT emissions pass of less than 3.00 ? I went through most things, prior to the MOT, ie, new air filter, injectors renovated, oil and filter change etc and had a pre-MOT smoke test at the local diesel specialists. Result, a reading of around 8.00 because, since last year (perhaps I should not be saying this?)I have been running with an increased fuel adjustment just to get some power. After the pre MOT smoke test, the lack of power is abysmal. After a fuel pump fuellig adjustemnt,the Masterace passed the MOT with an average emissions figure of 2.6 but, even with only two people in the vehicle, some average hills mean an embarassing first gear crawl. How do some owners carry all those people and tow a caravan with a Townace? Any advice would be welcome and, any comment on how critical injection timing is on power output. This seems to be the only thing that I have not checked. Valves and tappets were done last year and the mileage is less than 60K. It seems to me that the trade off between a correct emissions figure adjustment and power output, leaves the engine gutless

- (#8850) John Davis, 2 Jun 03 1:54

Hi John.
I have had a number of 2litre Turbo Diesel cars in the past, and I have returned some 530 miles on a 60 Litre tank full of fuel.

My last car was a 2 litre turbo petrol engine, and I used to get 430 Miles out of 50 Litres of petrol. With my 4x4 auto Townace, I am lucky if I get 430 Kilometres out of 50 Litres. I put this down to the shape and weight of the Ace.

Mike with the 24ft caravan put his 2 wheel drive manual on a recently calibrated weighbridge, and it came in at over 2 tons. So the power output of the 2CT engine is well below what is needed to get a good amount of power. Having said that, the power shouldn’t be abysmal. This suggests that you have some power loss somewhere. A good indication of power loss is poor MPG. Have you checked yours recently, and how good or bad is it?

dave Bright

- (#8910) dave Bright, 2 Jun 03 5:35

Thanks Dave for your interest and helpful comments. Yes, I do check MPG on a regular basis and, paradoxically, it is 28.5 miles/gallon which, bearing in mind the size/shape of the vehicle, is excellent and does look good against your 24/25 mpg figure. I can get the performance up considerably by adjusting the pump and suffering a lower MPG figure but, that brings a very high emissions reading and, here in Leicestershire, there are roadside emission checks being introduced for private cars. You have the same configuration as me, ie, auto 4 x 4 and, from the figures you mention, you are using more fuel. Would you be good enough to comment again. Would your emissions figure be below the mandatory 3 value if your engine was tested today? Another area which I have not checked is the turbo. It "seems" to be OK and the boost light comes on at approx 1800 RPM with the "non-boost" light never showing but, when I am in those low gears, first or second, on a fairly steep hill,(with a "walking pace" road speed) turbo "roar" seems to be excessive and might be an indication of a less than adequate turbo performance when it is most needed.

- (#8911) John Davis, 2 Jun 03 7:11

Mine's a 2WD auto. As our fuel gauge is kaput, we're well used to resetting the trip meter after filling up, and I can claim 600+ km on motorways, and 500+ general driving. I think the pump's probably adjusted on the "clean" side as it doesn't feel too urgent up hills, and when I've been following in another car the exhaust is clean, with the just the odd puff of smoke when it kicks down on a steep bit.

I know a previous mechanic said it was easy to tweak the pump for an emissions pass but I'd probably want to get it "untweaked" afterwards to make the car go, so that backs up everything said here.

I'm surprised at the weight reading two tons on a 2WD though - I didn't think they were that heavy. A & F Imports info page at http://www.webcars.net/sp-ttownace.htm states 1430kg, and power at 82 PS, just under 80 bhp. Did he have his caravan on the weighbridge as well?

- (#8912) SteveFE, 2 Jun 03 7:43

Hi John,
Turbo boost light at 1800 is about right, and you wont see the orange light on unless its over pressure. I guess the question here is; Is it possible for the turbo to reach the minimum pressure to trigger the green light at the usual revs, but not increase the pressure beyond that? this would cause inadequate performance.

I used to see quite a lot of smoke at high engine revs in my rear view mirror, however since fitting waterless coolant, I haven’t seen any smoke at any speed, even on some quite hilly bits, and my 24/25 mpg has risen to 26.5 mpg. I cant explain it, but its only 1 tank full so far, and I have been running the aircon lately so that wont help.

I have to confess that I have no idea what my emissions figure is, since I have only had it since September last year. As I have two days off at the end of this week to get the ATF changed, maybe I will get the emissions tested as well. Then we can compare notes properly.

As I notice you are going to the Autumn Ace Jam, it will be a good opportunity to jump in a few other Aces, and compare the handling and performance. Sadly I don’t think I can make it as my 5 year old daughter has an operation two days earlier to have grommets fitted to her ears.

dave Bright

- (#8913) dave Bright, 2 Jun 03 7:56

Hi Steve,
Apparently neither the caravan or Mike himself figured in the weight, which was a surprise to me also. I read a posting from Dave Miller on Ace Answers that an unladen townace weighs around 1600kg with 60% of the weight on the front axel. 1430kg, and a picture of a 4x4 seems a bit light. Then again there are so many variants and ad on options, may be there is no standard weight.

dave Bright

- (#8914) dave Bright, 2 Jun 03 8:29

Thanks fellow contributors for your comments. Lots to think about but, just in case anyone thinks that I am a boy racer, my motoring is very sedate indeed. However, I would like that little bit more power on hills so that Reliant Robins are not being held up by my leisurely progress.

- (#8915) John Davis, 2 Jun 03 11:36

John, a possible cause of your power reduction has occurred to me, and I think it may “throw the cat amongst the pigeons” so to say.

Firstly as you know, I have been pondering the cooling system for some time now, and a number of questions keep popping up. One of them relates to the engine temperature. According to the temperature gauge, and the analysis performed by Dave Mason, this indicates a normal running temperature somewhere around 115°C. Now with a 14 psi radiator cap, and a coolant mix of 50/50, the boiling point of the coolant is raised to 129°C. So there’s not much room for error. This begs the question, “why would Toyota want, or allow the engine temperature to be so high?” after all there are plenty of ways to reduce it. A possible answer is that at 115°C, the power output of the engine may be at its most efficient for the Ace family.

Ok, here comes the cat. I notice from the archives that you are running a modified thermostat which has lowered the running temperature to 80/85°C. Any chance that this is below the ideal temperature range for the maximum power output from the engine?

dave Bright

- (#8916) dave Bright, 3 Jun 03 5:51

Thanks for the comment Dave. Yes, I probably do run the engine at a lower than average temperature, ie, on a hot day, with a Durite gauge, the head temperature never exceeds 95/100c and, the average, is probably around 90c. I had thought that this might not be doing the engine a lot of good though I don't think it does it much harm. My latest wheeze is an adjustable bypass, around the thermostat so that I don't have that difficult, twice yearly, chore of changing the stat. Thanks for the suggestion but, when I do need that extra power, the temp gauge is usually at the higher mark and I am not sure that the small difference in running temperature would affect the available power. However, you have raised a point which others might like to comment on and someone might be able to confirm that temperature is pertinent to power output

- (#8917) John Davis, 3 Jun 03 12:44

temperature does indeed affect power. Oil thins with heat, reducing friction. But the heat will also warm the fuel, changing its volatility, lubricity, and density. Of these, loss of density through heating will decrease power as will a loss of lubricity. An increase in volatility (eg increasing the Cetane number) will decrease ignition lag effectively advancing the timing slightly. This will give a little more power.

Optimum fuel temp is accepted to be around 40c

Diesels aren't as sensitive to block temp for actual combustion as petrol engines, as we aren't needing fuel vaporisation to aid mixing. But we do need enough heat for efficient heat exchange (to the heater...)

- (#8918) david miller, 3 Jun 03 13:12

Hi all,
Excuse me for butting in but perhaps it may be of interest to you to have a look at WATER WETTER which for our size turbo diesel vehicles will cost you £19.98 including P+P.
It claims to clean, lubricate waterpump seals, reduce corrosion and eliminate foaming in the cooling system and reduce engine temp by up to 15%.

It's used by many caravanners in their Towing Vehicles

I've just added some to coolant, too early to report any effect.
Stay Cool !!

Find it at www.redlineoil.co .uk

Wyn

- (#8919) Wyn, 3 Jun 03 14:36

I run an import hiace supercustom
Have a multimeter with temp probe (for last 3 months)strapped currently just under thermo housing
Power wise it feels as though it is best around 88-90 degrees which is the average operating temp when unlaboured.
If laboured with a heavier foot it will fluctuate some but can go up to 95/6 degrees (heater channels off -motorway hills at speed)
Powerwise at this higher temp I can only describe it as feeling a little 'constipated' or under some resistance.
The viscous fan I assume will sap more power at higher temps?
New toyota theromstat I got today has 88 degrees printed on it so I assume this is a desired operating temp. I quizzed a mechanic who felt over 95 deg operating would be too much - he also felt that the design of some toyota vans allowed the airflow to the rad to actually go under it at motorway speeds - he did recommend someone who alters rads somehow to compensate but I was too wrapped up in degrees to take note
I am aware of companies offering fluids to reduce cooling system temp - but wonder if these products are more suitable for drivers who push their vehicles hard (speed, heavy load, towing) thereby just compensating - keeping the temp closer to the designed one
I know heat insulating wrap is available (just used some to protect atm pipe following fitting toyotas modified/improved front pipe for my van -
If the fuel lines around hot areas were wrapped this would reduce radiated air heat from the engine but would it insulate the direct heat radiating from the fuel pump and have the effect of warming the fuel line?
What do people think?
Other options may be oil additives - have tried these on vehicles and not been impressed with the exception of a product called 'Prolong' from a tv shop channel.
Made a big difference to a primera without question
The ad shows a car being driven with no oil, sump plug or oil filter for something like 4hrs and 40 min! (and they only stop because they are hungry!
Thats impressive but I would'nt like to buy a car that had gone through that
And of course the 250,000 mile virtually no mechanical wear mobil 1 ad? - tried synthetics on petrol cars and feel they are an improvement but being deisel ignorant I have only gone as far as a semi synthetic 10w40 - though I did put some 'duralube'(additive) in when I got it which made it quieter - though no other benefit noted
At the end of the day too cold is no good and too hot is no good
Sorry about the long post
Chris

- (#8920) Chris Turner, 3 Jun 03 18:17

Chris,
"Sorry about the long post"
On the contrary, thanks for the long post and it's thought provoking contents. Also, thanks to all who have commented here. I am sure, like me, we have all learned a lot.

- (#8921) John Davis, 4 Jun 03 1:48