I have asked for Rob Drinkwater's help in finding examples of failed Townace and Estima cylinder heads and radiators. I am particularily looking for 'blocked' radiator cores, so that I can get the sediment laboratory analysed. If anyone has a current or recent cylinder head failure and still has the bits, I would be grateful if you could get in touch. Many thanks, Greg
- (#11303) Greg Scott, 21 Oct 03 10:22
Just to put some meat on the bones of Greg's posting here, as you all know, I work in the motor trade & one of the manufacturers that we work closely with is ADL Blueprint, they are currently working, not only on a parts programme for the Townace, but also towards a possible fix for the perennial cooling problem that we all suffer/fear with Townaces/Lucidas etc. So if any of you can help then by providing old cylinder heads, gaskets, radiators, viscous couplings etc following a problem with your machine, please could you e-mail Greg at the address on his post, so that we can help ADL to help us.
Thank-you in advance of your help guys & girls.
Regards,
Rob Drinkwater.
Business Development Manager - Technical Division.
Camberley Auto Factors Ltd.
- (#11304) Rob Drinkwater, 21 Oct 03 18:35
Hello Rob and Greg.
I had a head gasket go earlier in the year, and its still leaning up against the fence by the bin.
Its the fabric type, and not the original one either. At some stage before my bus was imported, it threw a cam belt. This was evident by the damage on the top of the pistons that was discovered when the engine was stripped down. Basically the gasket started leaking coolant at the back of the engine. It had cracked from the coolant port to the outer edge. At the time I was running it on waterless coolant which doesn't start to boil until 170°C so although there was coolant slowly oozing out and trickling down the bell housing, it wasn't overheating. If its of use to you, your welcome to have it. Let me know where to send it, and I'll post it off. I no longer have the old head unfortunately, I had to return it to Cylinderheads UK or stomp up an additional £250.
I know there are a lot of theories relating to blown 2ct engines, but a much overlooked issue is the mileage reading. In the UK we judge cars by the distance they have covered, which is usually a good indication of age and condition. Mileage on Imported cars should be viewed in a different way.
I found some information on http://www.un.org/esa/gite/csd/minato.pdf It details the average speeds travelled in the EU, Asia and the USA during peek time, rush hour traffic. The average speed driving in the EU is quoted as 30 to 40 Kph whilst Japan is 10 to 20 Kph. Compare two vehicles, one from the EU and one from Japan, both with 60,000 miles on the clock. If we convert the mileage to the hours the engine has run, it paints a very different picture. In Japan the engine will have been running for some 4,000 hours, whilst in the EU it will have only run for 1700 hours. If we then convert the hours in Japan, to a distance that would have been covered at EU average speeds, it actually works out to be equivalent to 114,000 miles. That’s nearly twice what’s on the clock.
Good luck with your investigations, and if I can be of any more assistance, let me know.
Regards
dave Bright
- (#11305) dave Bright, 22 Oct 03 6:30
Speaking of "...the perennial cooling problem that we all suffer/fear with Townaces/Lucidas etc", whatever happened to the contact info etc for the 'audible alarm' modification that used to assail us each time we hit the front page of Ace Archives? I've been eyeing that off for some weeks, and now that I've actually got a Townace that needs it, it disappears(!).
Help?
- (#11393) Leigh Ryan, 25 Oct 03 9:23
Many of you may remember that I had an overheating episode back in July. I changed the radiator,rad cap, thermostat & viscous fan for an electric item with Kenlowe thermo switch the vehicle ran well since then. Last week it went for its MOT after which I wnet to Toyota for some rear anti roll bar bushes. I noticed that there was coolant under the bus, checked the rad & found it half empty. I got a new cap right away from the dealer & drove home to fit the parts, but for the last week I have been getting the same problem, I have also noticed that the engine is running a bit rough on idle like it needs a service. I took the floor out & checked the pipes that I disturbed to fit the thermo switch, these were OK. I placed a rubber glove finger over the ver flow pipe & found that it strted to inflate like a baloon even at tick over, has the head gasket completely gone or could still be a pipe leaking water out & letting air in? The heater also goes cold after about 25 mins. of driving.
- (#11394) Arshad Mahmood, 26 Oct 03 7:36
sounds like the headgasket unfortunately...
- (#11395) david miller, 26 Oct 03 8:11
Hi Arshad
Like David says, it doesn’t sound to good, especially if its running rough.
Its worth bearing in mind that if there is a leak in the cooling system, and it sounds like there is, the reduction in pressure will allow the coolant to boil and turn to steam. Steam is greater in volume than water by some 500%, and will form a bubble in the surrounding coolant in the hottest part of the engine, ie the head. This in turn increases the pressure of the cooling system dramatically, and the radiator cap releases coolant to try to maintain a constant 15psi pressure. As this coolant exit’s the pressurised part of the system, it will also boil instantly and turn to steam, forcing coolant out of the expansion tank.
Once the engine is turned off and it starts to cool, the steam will condense back to water. When this happens the cooling system will have negative pressure, and allow the drawback mechanism of the radiator cap to suck back the coolant from the expansion tank. Unfortunately so much coolant will have been forced out of the expansion tank, there will be insufficient left to maintain the correct level.
So its not so much letting air in, as forcing coolant out, and a relatively small leak can result in a big loss of coolant once boiling occurs.
Placing the finger of a rubber glove over the expansion tank vent tube is a reasonable test, but it depends on how quickly it inflates, and bursts or blows off. If you have a full filler neck and a cold engine, the coolant will expand reasonably quickly, but not instantly.
Hope that helps
Dave Bright
- (#11396) dave Bright, 26 Oct 03 14:09
Arshad, I favour the small plastic bag on the expansion overflow tube if suspicious, but would try and attatch so it is not air tight - In theory your (air tight)rubber glove finger may expand, as the expansion coolant will get hot eventually - as David and Dave say it doesn't sound good, but if coolant is under the bus you should be able to trace its source and extending the head whilst refilling should help get the air out of the system
Hope you manage to get it sorted soon
- (#11397) chris turner, 26 Oct 03 17:31