We have just had our 1990 2l TD Super Extra serviced. I have 2 problems, 1 the rear heater does not blow hot air (takes the chill off it) the front is not much better, the garage recon its just needing a new thermostst despite the temp gauge reading normal (the needle sits in the middle of the gauge). Before splashing out on a new thermostat (I know they are not that expensive) has anyone had a similar experience?
Second, I have a water leak. It is not much but it produces a fine mist when up to temperature and tell tale lines round the bell housing of the gearbox. It looks like it is either coming from a pipe bracket at the back of the head above the autobox, or from what appears to be a plate on the rear of the cylinder head. Again has anyone had this plate or pipe leak, and what is the plate for?
Any help appreciated.
- (#7800) Jim Paul, 12 Jan 04 11:22
This is exactly what happened to me last year, and its bad news I'm afraid. The most likely source is the head gasket. There are two coolant ports at the back of the head and block that are very close to the edge, and this is where the gasket will have gone. This leak is robbing the heaters of coolant, and in the case of the rear heater, that's on the thermostat bypass, so you need to get the head off and change the gasket before it gets so hot that the head cracks. An unmodified temperature gauge wont indicate this problem, because the coolant level drops to low. When it does react, it shoots into the red, and your head will have cracked.
- (#7800) dave Bright, 12 Jan 04 11:37
If I recall correctly - the plate retains the cam shaft in place and the pipe runs round the back of the head to the exhaust manifold. I assume it got something to do with recirculating exhaust gasses.
- (#7800) stephen judge ( Belfast ) , 12 Jan 04 16:28
Thanks, sounds like it is the head then. How big a job is it to change, are BBC spares the best place to buy the parts from? I stay in SW Scotland and the nearest Toyota dealer is in Carlisle 45 miles so i have to consider the travel to and from in my balancing out prices.
- (#7800) Jim Paul, 12 Jan 04 17:47
Hi Stephen.
The plate covers a large hole coolant duct that is needed during the casting process. That's how they get the sand out. The plate then has a metal gasket, so it's unlikely that it is leaking. The small-bore metal pipe is the return feed from the thermostat bypass, and the larger bore metal pipe is for the EGR.
Hi Jim.
Its not difficult, just very time consuming. Floor out, front of engine stripped, disconnect battery, remove starter, remove injector pipes undo both manifolds, remove rocker cover, then remove the head. And not many bolts are easy to get too either. This is a time consuming job, so there are things that you should consider doing whilst the engine is stripped down to this extent. First and most important is to get the head pressure tested. If its cracked, you don’t want to re fit it. ADL do a replacement water pump for less than £40 and as this runs off the cam belt, it would be a good opportunity to change it at the same time. This is also a good opportunity to clean the inside of the inlet manifold, and get the injectors reconditioned. Also, use a new cam belt, new head bolts, new thermostat and thermostat O-ring during the assembly process. I did all of this last year including a reconditioned head from UK cylinder heads, and the cost excluding labour was just short of £700. The labour only cost £200 but then my mechanic is not only very good, he is also very cheap.
Another option would be to get a replacement engine from BBC spares. I believe that he charges £450 for a second hand one, but there is no guarantee that a replacement engine wont go the same way as the first, and you should still replace the water pump and use all new belts, thermostat, and thermostat O-ring. The last option would be a reconditioned engine that BBC spares used to advertise at £1200.
Can you find a local mobile mechanic to do the work? This may be a better option than your miles away Toyota dealer.
- (#7800) dave Bright, 13 Jan 04 03:20
Dave, Thanks for keeping Jim right regarding the plate - just goes to show you should never "assume" anything with these vehicles. When I had my head off - it was "Oh that must be to retain the cam shaft" As Homer Simpson would say "Doh"!!!!
However, surely Jim should'nt rule out the gasket on the metal plate or the pipe leaking - I'm a born optimist ! What about lifting the floor pan out to investigate the problem more easily- its the first step in Head Gasket removal anyway. Use a mirror to try and view down the back of the head.
Jim, if your budget is tight, your other option is head gasket / replacement head only and a cam belt depending on how recently yours was replaced.
I did my own before Christmas ( ex cam belt )for £250. Second hand head was £117, gaskets and 10 bolts cost the rest. Check out " Head Gasket" thread 12/19/03 ( about 90 below this one ) for the stepwise method I used.
I actually used some of my old head bolts because Toyota could'nt get me replacements on time. To verify that they would work I took one and torqued it according to Toyota requirements in a Calibration laboratory. I measured the torque values with the 90 + 90 turns and then following the recommendation of a Metallurgist I overtorqued it 30% above the value obtained. It failed to break. Based on these values the Metallurgist recommended that they would be suitable to re-use.
Hope this helps
- (#7800) stephen judge, 13 Jan 04 17:10
I'm not sure if I was optimistic or in denial at the time, but that was exactly what I thought.
As I was running on waterless coolant, it wasn't overheating. Then one day I noticed the temperature was quite high after restarting the engine at a service station, and over a few days, the coolant started to darken and eventually went black. That's when I new I had done something expensive.
Inspecting from the top is Nye on impossible because the air duct, turbo pipe and the Egr pipe all run over, or round the back of the engine and the bypass pipe is below them all, mounted just below the top of the block.
I guess that its a personal preference with the bolts and cam belt. For my part I figured that this is about the longest, and most expensive job on the engine, so with my preventative maintenance head on, I thought it would be worth investing a few extra pounds on the bolts, belt, and a few other things whilst the engine was apart. More advisable than necessary perhaps.
- (#7800) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 14 Jan 04 03:16
Thanks for all the info. Stripped it out and found the gasket had gone at the back by the water ports. Head ok so replaced the gasket. I changed the t/stat, timing belt and drive belts (got the drive belts from BSL). Put it all back together after removing and flushing the radiator (no sludge). Once back together it fired up no problems. Flushed the cooloing system afew times and filled it with anti freeze and took her for a drive. I had a slight leak from a hose but a new jubilee clip solved that. So far so good.
It was a swine of a job, especialy the crankshaft pulley. I broke my hip this time last year and at 6' 3" it was more than a little uncomfortable stripping it all out. I jacked it up so I didn't need to bend over so much. All in all a good way to spend 2 days holidays from work putting it back together! Don't want to do it again in a hurry though!
- (#7800) Jim Paul, 23 Jan 04 17:01