hi all i have a problem with a leek in the cooling system. fill her up she drops about 1250ml and dose not lose any more until i top her up again.she dose not suck up water from res tank. had her pressure tested but no pressure leek .has any one any idears on this matter thanks jason
- (#8865) jason, 28 Feb 04 06:23
Sounds like a faulty radiator cap, or loose pipe between the filler neck and expansion tank, or a loose pipe in the expansion tank.
Replace the ratiator cap with a Toyota float type, and twist each end of the drawback pipes to ensure they have tight joints
- (#8865) dave Bright, 28 Feb 04 07:18
hi david ment to say that the loss is on the floor and i have a new float type and new pipe from tank to filler neck. pipe fits nice is thire a way of testing the new rad cap thanks jason
- (#8865) jason, 28 Feb 04 13:43
Hi Jason, I'm not sure I fully understand this, you say there are no leaks but the loss is on the floor?
Is the large bore pipe in the expansion tank? and is the tank clean from silt at the bottom?
- (#8865) dave Bright, 29 Feb 04 02:04
Hi david when i fill the system to the rim i lose about 1250ml on the floor over two days then it stops leeking .fill again and the same happens again. yes to the pipe in the expansion tank thanks jason
- (#8865) jason, 29 Feb 04 05:56
Just to make sure I have understood this correctly, you fill the filler neck up to the top, and the expansion tank which should be filled about half way up then fills up and overflows, spilling out coolant on to the ground. I take it that the expansion tank level is not filled up to the top?
Is the coolant coloured or black? If its turning black then you will have a gasket problem or a cracked head.
- (#8865) dave Bright, 29 Feb 04 09:21
hi david it is not coming from the epansion tank and coolant colour is green .park her down hill not leaning to the side put a bowl under driver side front wheel.the coolant come from one of the bushes near the front hope this help thanks jason
- (#8865) jason, 1 Mar 04 06:06
Hope you don't mind me butting in guys but here's my take on the problem.
1st you have a leak, probably from the array of inlet and heater pipes under the driver's seat. These are very prone to corrosion. I've had 3 seperate leaks myself in this area.
2nd you are losing pressure in the cooling system such that on cooling down water is not being sucked out from the expnasion bottle and into the filler neck. Therefore on inspection of the expansion bottle everything is fine but on inspection of the filler you are losing in the order of 1 litre of coolant.
To cure 1, I would suggest you need to remove the floorpan and get in there with a good torch. Look for wet patches. If not obvious, fill her up with coolant and run until warm with the floor out and cowling off and keep searching around for leaks. Watch out for the spinning fan BTW. If still no joy switch off when warm and allow to cool, again looking for leaks.
As for 2. You say you have replaced the cap and pipe to expansion bottle. What about the pipe that sits inside the bottle? Is it looose or porous? If either then replace it. You need to maintain vacuum between the coolant in the bottle and the filler pipe. Also check the surface of the neck. Any imperfections may be causing loss of pressure. A light rub with fine emery followed by a smear of grease or vaseline should help maintain the seal.
- (#8865) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 1 Mar 04 06:23
Sorry the last para could be misleading. I meant look for imperfections on the filler neck where the seal in the cap meets the metal of the neck - not the neck of the bottle which is of course plastic.
- (#8865) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 1 Mar 04 06:28
Hi guys,
we don't mind your butt ing here Ian. Sorry, big fat finger syndrome caused extra space.
What is confusing me is that the cooling system has been pressure checked and cleared of leaks, but as Ian says, if its not leaking out of the expansion tank, there has to be a leak somewhere. That suggest that its the radiator cap, because the pressure tester is a radiator cap in itself with a tube running out to the pressure gauge and pump. Worth checking the filler neck as Ian says, and the rubber seal on the radiator cap.
- (#8865) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 1 Mar 04 07:58
and Dave, the puddle of coolant is on the driver's side not the passenger side where the overflow is. Would a pressure test detect a leak in the heater side of things? I doubt it.
- (#8865) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 1 Mar 04 08:29
Hi Ian
My understanding of a pressure test is that the test rig is fitted in place of the radiator cap, then the pressure is pumped up to around 13Psi. That should pressurise the entire cooling system, heaters and all. If the pressure remains constant then no leaks are possible. (With the exception of a cracked head perhaps). If the pressure drops then there has to be a leak somewhere and the test would fail.
- (#8865) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 1 Mar 04 09:20
Hi Guy's
just reading with interest about the position of the leak' I have just spent £800 on total core plug replacement and new toyota water pump fitted and full service,after all that work i am still left with a small leak under the driver seat,the next morning i see a small pool of green water,my garage have checked and re-checked my system and tell me the system is holding pressure,i am on the verg of installing twin electric fans (next monday)i will have the floor pan out and i am buying a pressure testing kit (£100 + vat)
i plan to take floor pan out and i will do my own pressure test to see if i can locate this small leak,it only leaks when hot,maybe the leak only shows under pressure and a hot engine turns water into steam
only when the engine cools to a point that allows leaks to pool and when cool the leak seals itself
i also noticed that the ex-bottle has to be refilled every 4/5 days, so to a point the system is still working , when engine is cool no leaks until it gets hot.
i had my core plugs renew as i saw some of them steaming
dennis
- (#8865) dennis, 1 Mar 04 10:03
Depending on whether a pressure test is done hot or cold, a minor leak like this may slip through...
- (#8865) david miller, 2 Mar 04 00:22
I had thought that a pressure test was conclusive, but this appears to be wrong.
It's obvious I know but there are two factors that apply here, first is the temperature of the coolant and second is the pressure caused by the temperature of the coolant. If there is a hairline crack in a metal joint, or perhaps some corrosion as Ian has said, then it's possible to remain water tight but not air tight when cold, then as things warm up and expand, the crack can open up enough to allow coolant to escape. This would explain the failed drawback on cool down, coolant loss at temperature, and the passed pressure test.
There is a dye that can be added to coolant that shows up under an ultra violet light. Maybe this would be better at helping you both identify exactly where your leaks are.
There is a drain tap on the vertical radiator that can leak, especially if its been used recently. Its a nylon bolt with a rubber O ring seal on the end, and it fits into a metal boss. All these different materials will expand at different rates as the coolant heats up, and the o ring seal is prone to flattening as well. Its position is just in front of the axle on the drivers side, so it could be worth checking it if inspecting the pipe work doesn't reveal the leak.
- (#8865) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 2 Mar 04 01:19
Bite the bullet and take the floorpan out. There are miles of exposed heater pipes under there with plenty of T joints etc. All ripe for corroding. I doubt you will need any fancy dyes or testing equipment, just a good eye and plenty of light and patience.
- (#8865) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 2 Mar 04 03:50
I have a lite ace which needs topping up with 2pints(sorry im still old school) water once a week. expansion tank is full and coolant is coloured.Reading your board i need to change rad cap which could help.Does anyone know of a good garage in the norwich area(not a dealer ship) who will talk english to a novice!!!!! How do i know if the air con is working or needs re-gasing.Phew thats enough for one hit.
- (#8865) Val, 2 Mar 04 09:06
Val
You will get better visibility by starting a new thread. To answer your first question, loss of pressure when cooling down preventing the coolant from sucking back into the system. See anecdotes on this and other related current threads.
As for aircon. Bit more difficult to tell at this time of year but if you put heaters to cold and air to recirc and blower on full with aircon switch on, place a thermometer into a vent grill. Temperature should be below 5 degrees C.
Garage in Norwich? - no sorry can't help you there.
- (#8865) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 3 Mar 04 00:48
thanks Ian Dunse(Derbs) for youre help.
- (#8865) val, 3 Mar 04 09:30
thanks to all i am going to have timeing belt and water pump changed soon so.see what happen then thanks again lots of help jason
- (#8865) jason, 3 Mar 04 12:15
have you tried looking underneath in the dark with torch to find leak .if you have anti freeze in ythe system the torch light will show any leaks you have as the water lights up blue .i did this on my model f and found 3 water leaks that my husband didnt find .my dad has always used this manner to find leaks
- (#8865) ruthlaurahowse, 3 Mar 04 12:58
this monday my brother and i are taking floor pan out to complete my electric fan installation.
as you know that i have had alot of work carried out on my cooling system to put a stop to these leaks and as i said above i have still got a small leak under the drivers seat so not easy to see where it comming from,but i have noticed a patten , if i drive the ace carefully no leak if i drive it hard i get a tickle of water on the road below the drivers seat,it seems that to a point the leak will stay water tight until the temp/pressure forces it way out,am i right in thinking that we have afew rubber hose connecting on to metal pipes under driver floor pan.
Yes thats how i found my core plugs needed changing i used a torch at night and saw one of the big core plug (fine water mist)was smoking,and the garage told me if i poked it with a screw driver it would of made a hole in it (this was due to lack of anti-freeze).
i will post my finding on monday night and let you know where the leak was.
dennis
- (#8865) dennis, 4 Mar 04 01:24
Hi Denis.
Yes the amount of heat that the engine generates is directly in proportion to the amount of fuel it burns. Drive it hard and you will use more fuel and generate more heat than sedate driving. An emergency trip to A&E last weekend caused the temp alarm to trigger on a relatively short journey, where as two recent long trips to London didn't sound the alarm.
Yes there are a lot of junctions under the drivers seat as Ian has said.
- (#8865) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 4 Mar 04 01:38
I have a 94 Lite Ace 2.2TD. The long metal pipe was leaking which runs from the heater at the front up under the passenger seat around the power steering resivouir under the expansion tank then splitting in two one into the engine the other going to a smaller bore down and under to the drivers side.Can anybody tell me the part no. or where to get one,have bodged it with a bit of rubber for now. Thanks,Andy.
- (#8865) andy, 5 Mar 04 14:02
Im having the same trouble losing coolant. from drips on floor it is from some where under drivers seat. removing floor pan in a couple of days so will let you know what I find. Also the expansion bottle level is always the same so replacing rad cap and doing the things you all suggest cheers I previously owned a spacecruiser then an espace but didnt like it so got the townace. We have five kids and dogs, the townie is brill this is the first problem Ive had with it. Any good parts dealer near chesterfield? I had a tel no for a place in derby but lost it and cant remember the name they help with the spacecruiser parts Thanks again great site
- (#8865) kev, 10 Mar 04 04:09
That one's for you methinks, Mr Dunse...
- (#8865) david miller, 10 Mar 04 07:42
got the pan off, there are two vertical rads the leak seems to be from the forward one (smaller of the two) is this for aircon? will I need to take both off? cheers PS was the place in derby call ram-something obviously my memory must be going
- (#8865) kev, 10 Mar 04 08:43
Kev
Is the leak from the vertical rad? Yes take it out, just the faulty one. It's a pig of a job by all accounts though. There's a place that do recores on the Sheepbridge trading estate, better than buying new. Name and address should be in yellow pages.
As for spares, Minorfern on the Broadleys, Clay Cross for most serviceable items or Anglo Japanese Motor factors (01332)381673 at Derby but never had to use them.
For secondhand parts try Nippon Auto Spares, Stenson Rd, Stenson Fields, Derby DE23 6TG 01332 272292
Bullivants 01332 671000 can also get new parts and know Townies if you want any jobs doing.
Ram? If you mean Ram City Motors then no they sell Townies but heard some bad things about their aftersales non-service.
- (#8865) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 11 Mar 04 00:53
thanks for the numbers. got the rad out and i agree its a pig of a job thanks again should be sorted now (someone else warned me off Ram City too)
- (#8865) kev, 13 Mar 04 04:57
Hi All
This is a on going fight with the cooling system,took out floor pan and trying to find water leak around turbo but had no luck,got her nice and hot and kept the revs up to see if she would start to leak,I had both rads recored 6 months ago and we did find the vertial rad had a leak , it was a threaded screw hole which they filled with some metal filler and when the rad got hot and the metal expanded it looks like the filler was not expanding and would leak only when hot, that hole was just below the small tube on the top left side of rad (near to ex/bottle)the garage who I paid £350 to have both rads recored have now got her back and will carry out repairs free of charge,I am still left with a small leak under drivers seat only when the engine get hot (and only leaks now and then)I am wondering if this leak being small might be re-sealing itself off some how,once I get her back I will start to hunt for the other leak or leaks , the problem I feel is most of the hard to reach hose's are old and if pulled about can be damaged.
dennis
- (#8865) dennis, 15 Mar 04 17:03
Hi all. I had a small leak from under the drivers side, which my chappie wasn't able to find the source of. I lay underneath the van for some time with a torch, whilst the engine was still warm, and found it. There is a 6" piece of hose comes down and looks like it goes behind the oil filter. There was a pin sized hole in that.
Ian Dunse, Derby.....Another good outlet not far from Derby is Foreign Auto Parts at Burton on Trent. They are good guys, can get alomost anything and if they can't get it, they will make something else fit the job. x
- (#8865) old bird, 17 Mar 04 16:37
Yes thanks I knew of the place at Burton but as I'm near Chesterfield it's a wee bit far for me ..
- (#8865) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 18 Mar 04 02:48
Hi to you all, i have a 'H' plate town ace royal lounge 2.0 turbo diesel had to replace engine a few months back.With the water level up to the top of the filler neck,once it has been used for a few days i have to top up the water level with about a litre of coolant there are no signs of water loss on the floor.The coolant is not discoloured in any way,the expansion tank seems to take in some coolant,there are to pipes coming from the filler neck is it possible that they are fitted the wrong way round or should i be looking at replacing the rad cap
- (#8865) Trevor Munt, 24 Mar 04 08:45
Hello Trevor.
Lower pipe is vertical radiator breather and the pipe nearest the top of the filler neck is the overflow.
Yes fit a new float type radiator cap, they are the best.
You may have a minute leak that will allow coolant to escape the pressurised system at high temperatures. As it does it will turn to steam, so you may not see the typical pool of coolant under the van in the early stages.
- (#8865) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 24 Mar 04 09:24