I own a royal lounge 2ct H-plate.
I have unhappily fail in findign what my starting fault is.I wait for the plug lights to go out and turn the key "click"The starter goes but alas no turn.Battery charge is fine as if i stick to turning the key on off etc.. after SOME TIME it will spring into life i have also tried "jumping" to no effect.I`ve changed the starter THREE times,with no change.Past memories remind me of a friend of mine that had a old 735 bmw with the same problem and this was down to worn ring gear?Worn flywheel teeth?Does this sound right for my town ace!Tried view teeth with torch and small mirror but due to the space involved could not confirm this?
HELP PLEASE as i fear this is a little bit out of my depth and may be the end for her!

- (#9066) Ben Alan, 7 Mar 04 11:35

Had similar symptoms on SpaceCruiser. Found that rocking car in gear slightly sometimes helped. Suggestion was a dead spot on armature of starter motor. Battery was u/s as well which didnt help...replaced this and it helped for a while ... cleaned windings on starter with emery cloth .... helped for a while - replaced starter (apparently direct from motor factors who matched it from the shelf, and all is well!

- (#9066) Dave H, 7 Mar 04 11:53

a much debated topic.
many, many posts listed on ace answers.
clean tight connections may help.
a good strong charged battery may help.
overhaul of or new starter may help.
but mostly a direct lead to the starter solinoid, by-passing all the relays, will start it straight away.
the quick test is to disconnect the low voltage lead to the stater, uncover the bolt to the fat lead from the battery, touch the exposed end of the low voltage lead that is attached to the starter to the big ones nut and it should turn the starter. if not then the battery or starter are at fault. note ign does not have to be on for this to happen. also note you are playing with a direct feed from the battery, if you don't know what you are doing don't do it!!!!!

- (#9066) Clive (Bristol), 7 Mar 04 12:16

A long shot, but is it the auto selector not going into Park properly - try it in Neutral instead.

When I first got into an auto I couldn't start the thing - the starter clicked etc but wouldn't start - then it was pointed out to me that it won't start unless it's in Park or Neutral.
Since then I have experienced a few autos that don't sit in Park properly and you have to wiggle them before thye will start.

Changing the starter I think rules that out, but maybe....... It's a long shot but worth checking.
(Sorry if it's obvious, but it is easily overlooked - especially if you are not used to autos!)

- (#9066) DaveW, 8 Mar 04 04:06

Its done it again this morning.....
I saw in the archives about solonoid(spelling?)Conections i have one of the previous starters on the kitchen bar(wife not happy!)and took the end cap off the soloniod removed the "plunger" like piece out with the copper plate on it.found that the plate is pitted...and the two copper contacts inside the solonoid..one was in bad condition with heavy pitting and uneven wear(this was the power to solonoid)But the second one(solonoid to starter)was in very good condition with only very slight wear...ARE these the contacts/conections that common problem?These look like inexpensive contacts to replace..Anyone got some or know where to get some?...Also of note the starter motor itself is hard to turn against the bushes...normal????
I know its hard to give help over the net but please do throw all your ideas at me and keep them coming!

- (#9066) Ben Alan, 8 Mar 04 08:22

The two copper contacts can be found at good factors or auto electrical outlets. Toyota do them but you may have wait a few days. Mine was as you found and replacements fitted the plungers cleaned up and all ok.....for a few months.
Hope it cures it for you, but as it is more than one starter showing the same problem, the phantom voltage drop, perhaps enough to wear the one contact but not enough to throw both?
Glad to see you have the wife involved, I trust all her comments were helpful!

- (#9066) Clive (Bristol), 8 Mar 04 08:33

I fixed this problem by replacing the two contacts in the starter solenoid.

To confirm we're talking about the right contacts see Ace Answers - Ace Handbook - ENGINE - picture: "Starter solenoid contacts arrangement" but the starter current goes through both these contacts even though there is a connection to the solenoid coil(see Ace Answers - Ace Handbook - wiring) so even if only one is in bad condition you have a potential failure. It may just be that all the starters you tried are marginal in this area.

I've never had evidence of the voltage drop in the wiring but I accept that is if anything a more common explanation. I noticed that you had changed the starter three times so, like Clive, I would say it's less likely to be a fault in the starter and you need to install a fresh switched feed to the solenoid terminal.

However if you're quite used to swapping starters (it's not that hard) at least put one on with some good solenoid contacts. While you wait to get hold of new contacts you could try putting packing under some of your least worn ones - placing them slightly closer to the copper ring on the armature.

- (#9066) Dave (Sussex), 8 Mar 04 08:54

In reply to last posted message from dave.
The contacts are the same as the archived picture.Further look at the starter i have in the house with me.The bad one is a lot lot lower than the good one.Not being in the knowledge of things starty,am i right in thinking that the current comes in to one contact to connect to the central "plunger"(by means of unknown magic)then passes to the second contact then to starter?
Does the solenoid control just the turning of the starter?or the engaugement?or both?
could someone help in my understanding of this?
I do have a mechanical knowledge,but when it comes down to electricity in the engine bay i draw blank.


- (#9066) Ben alan, 8 Mar 04 10:32

Not unknown magic, but a magnetic fiel created by the passing of current through the solenoid's coil.
the solenoid first pulls the drive gear into engagement, then switches the supply on the the motor.
Not to confuse matters, but the solenoid has two coils- both are needed to "pull in" the solenoid, but once the main contacts close, one of the coils is shut off.

- (#9066) david miller, 8 Mar 04 11:03

Thank you for the solenoid information i understand a bit better now!
Voltage drop?are we talking about intermitant drop?
If not i will dissmiss this as i originaly thought this was the problem and tried to jump the townie with my old bm 730,which has a excess of elecy juice,and as my e-mail address reads im well experianced with "jumping".
Is there anything else on the starter/solenoid i can check before comiting to putting new contacts on my spare starter and paying a vist to the underside Again.
(Checking the one already on before hand,tomorrow)

- (#9066) Ben alan, 8 Mar 04 11:31

The voltage drop seems to be intermittent, a high resestance occurring somewhere in the wire from the ign. switch to the starter. My own testing indicates that it's in the loom somewhere between the switch and the inhibitor switch socket. This wire (strangely, as as's a heavy wire, so a bit wasteful...) runs accross to one of the a/c relays behind the glovebox before heading out in the main loom behind the fusebox and along the underside of the car...

- (#9066) d, 9 Mar 04 00:28

I might add that there's two documented easy fixes. One is to wire a relay up down at the starter- a normal relay will pull in even when the fauly is occurring, as it takes a lot less current (in essence, the volt drop will no longer occur)
Or you can just bring a wire up from the solenoid to the engine bay, and touch the end of it against the live terminal on the glowplug relay, on occasions that the engine won't start...

- (#9066) david miller, 9 Mar 04 00:33

I checked the contacts on the solenoid that i removed this morning and found that te same contact as before was almost gone!Although the contacts are not the same size i swapped the good one over from my second solenoid and......hey presto! its never started so quick!
It may be to soon to throw a party in the townie..but the diffrence well did make me gasp!
I start using her again on a regular basis to see if her turmoil is over!

I will report back in near future+I would like to thank everyone who as thrown a wealth of knowledge at me .A much valued site,and a great community.+ i have managed to learn something!!Now thats rare!!

If shes still going in the summer i WILL catch up with you guys at the rally and buy you a drink!

Thanks ben.
- (#9066) Ben Alan, 9 Mar 04 08:33