Hi,

We've had our Townace about 4 months now, and it's mucked us about from day one. It appears to have some kind of starting issue. We've charged the battery, cleaned the terminals and leads, recharged it and so on. The final straw was today when my husband went out to it, nothing - no lights, nothing - brought the battery in, put it on charge, put it back out after 10 minutes and the thing started. So to solve the problem we just have to take the battery for a short walk around the block each time we want to go out in the car! I'm thinking that either all Townie owners are very strong from lugging those batteries, or there is another solution. The fuel guage is also showing how much fuel there is in the tank, even when the engine is switched off. Could the two be connected? Personally, I doubt it, but nothing would surprise me with this vehicle!

I don't want us to get rid of it, but we have to have something more reliable than this.

- (#9856) SarahR, 4 Apr 04 04:22

The fuel guage will always show whats in the tank.
No lights has to be battery connection. Check change the leads and the battery earth connection.
When you charge it is it flat?

- (#9856) Clive (Bristol), 4 Apr 04 08:04

So the fuel gauge is always showing? In the Mini (yeah, we went from a Mini to a Townace!) the gauge goes back to zero when the engine is switched off.

And we charged the battery to be sure, but no, it wasn't flat. It used to go flat before we discovered the purpose of the magic black switch above the key.....

We've cleaned the terminals and leads, but I'm with you on changing them. I'll have a look at the Earth connection. How would that affect the starting?

- (#9856) SarahR, 4 Apr 04 10:38

If disconnecting and re-connecting the batteery makes it start it is likely to be one or both of the terminal ends ot the other end where they connect. I'm guessing that the movement of the leads is clearing the problem until the next time.
There is a name for the typr of fuel guage but I can't remember it right now, and yes it caught me out many years ago when I first got my old Spacecruiser.
Glad to see you found out about the black button.

- (#9856) Clive (Bristol), 4 Apr 04 11:03

Most Japanese vehicles show fuel level at all times & no that isn't the cause of your apparent discharging battery problem.

The battery may just be duff, hence it lost charge on it's own. You might have the very common voltage drop that Townies suffer from, this is where there is a significant drop in voltage between that battery & the starter motor.
Bear in mind that the starter motor may take up to 200 amps from the battery when it first turns the engine over (You household kettle only takes 13 amps), so if you lose even 1/2 a volt the current will not be able to be drawn.

There is a well documented solution for this voltage drop problem on Ace Answers. You can either replace the contacts in the starter solenoid, or do as I did & put a new relay in line with the starter motor to carry a full belt of current to the solenoid.

This has resulted in 100% starting reliability on our car since.

Also, when it does this problem, try wiggling the gear lever, or moving it from P to N, if it then starts it could be due to maladjusted or faulty inhibitor switch on the gear change lever.

Hope this helps, & don't get rid of the car, just because of this really rather minor problem.

Regards Rob.

- (#9856) Rob Drinkwater, 4 Apr 04 11:05

Sarah,

How old is the battery,if you got a bad battery it could only need a 10 min charge to get it to start her up,you clean and checked the battery connections and i take it that once she has started the red battery warning on dash goes out.this will indicate that the charging circuit/alternator working (once engine is running the electrical system needs a voltage reading of 14volts which will push 2 volts back into battery and keep it topped up,if the electrical system only kicks out 12volts or below then the battery will slowly lose charge)so you could have a charging problem or i would first replace the battery for a new one.
battery models NX-120-7 or NX120-7L or NX120-7L-MF

the cheapest is to check connections first and then consider the stat of the battery you can check the electrolyte of each cell reading should be 1.27-1.29 (specific gravity)

afew years back i had battery keep going flat so i just paid about £45 for a new battery not knowing if that was the problem and all was well after that.

dennis

- (#9856) dennis, 4 Apr 04 11:55

According to my husband, the battery showed nearly charged when he put it on the battery charger earlier. My thinking follows that it must be the leads. We've cleaned them and the problem is still there, so I'm thinking that we need to replace them. And probably the earth as well. Easy job? I should think so, but I'll have a look at the online manual to be sure before I do it myself.

And I don't want to get rid of the Townie. At the moment my 10mth old son is in the front seat (as it's the only seat with a 3pt harness) and I get the whole of the back to myself!

- (#9856) SarahR, 4 Apr 04 12:24

Sarah,

Don't assume that it's not your battery thats causing your starting problem. Before I bought my Ace I had a Spacecruiser that caused me endles days of work due to it not starting. Twice the RAC looked at it and said that it was the starter so twice the starter was replaced (once under guarantee) but still the problem persisted. When I turned the key I would get nothing. I charged the battery and checked all the terminals and leads but still I had the problem. My Wife kept telling me that it must be the battery but because I had charged it I thought that it could'nt possibly be the battery. Eventualy after weeks of frustration I managed to get the Spacecruiser to an Auto Electrics Garage and they almost immediately diagnosed a battery fault. The battery was taking charge but due to a duff cell it was not holding it and therefor going flat. I should have listened to the Wife! I had a new battery fitted and all was then fine.

- (#9856) Bill, 5 Apr 04 06:00

Sarah,

the battery charger may look like its fully charged the battery but is the battery holding the charge the only sure way to test a battery is under a full load test,most garages have a short circuit tester which tells you how much charge the battery holds,i would stick with looking at the battery abit more before you say the battery is good other wise you will go round and round looking at other areas of the charging system spending time and money only to come back to the battery again, kwit-fit will test the battery free
it takes 5 mins.

on the other hand as i said above to check your leads that connect to battery terminals you could have a high resistance joint and you will need a low voltage ohm meter and you are looking for a reading of about 0.2 ohms, you will have to short the test leads out on the meter to allow the resistance of the leads
on my meter the leads are 0.2ohms so if i get a reading of 0.4ohms then i know the real reading is 0.2ohms, on a 12 volt system any reading above 0.4ohms
would need looking into

- (#9856) dennis, 5 Apr 04 10:39

Resistance testing is basically useless, all you are seeing is whether you have continuity really, the only way to test it is to do a voltage drop test. With the engine running, and all loads on, put the + of the voltmeter on the + of the alternator & the - of the voltmeter on the + of the battery, the resulting voltage reading will show you the voltage drop, any more than 0.25v is unacceptable. Now connect the - of the voltmeter to an engine earth & the + of the voltmeter to the - of the battery, again any more than 0.25v drop is unacceptable. Change which ever (or both) of the earth straps or battery - alternator cable that need changing then. Voltage drop testing actually tests the cables ability to carry a load. If you are not seeing much drop on these cables, then repeat test at the starter motor, this will then show if you have a voltage drop to the starter itself, then you can narrow it down to the contact in the starter solenoid.

If it is the solenoid then the relay fix on Ace Answers should cure the problem.

Regards Rob.

- (#9856) Rob Drinkwater, 5 Apr 04 15:42

I think we are moving away from the problem "no lights" was mentioned, therefore no battery circuit. Taking the battery out and putting it back again disturbs the problem and it starts first time. So even if it's a duff battery the lights should come on, this leaves the leads and their connections in my mind.

- (#9856) Clive, 6 Apr 04 00:50

Sarah. One of the difficulties with the Townace electrical system is that the heart of the system, ie the battery, is hidden away and a bit difficult to get at. Consequently, you are likely to find that there has been some neglect here by previous owners. The battery is likely to be fairly old and an 80/90 amp hour replacement should work wonders. I think that Bill's posting says it all and many of us do try to avoid the obvious and quite expensive route of battery replacement. A thorough cleaning of the cable connections, including the negative earthing bolt etc, will allow you to start off with a sound and satisfactory electrical supply system and, any further faults (unlikely in my opinion)can then be attended to.

- (#9856) John Davis (Leics), 6 Apr 04 01:30

Hi, Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions on whay we should do. The husband says we will go to the first Kwik-Fit we see so to have the battery checked. And now the fine weather is here and the son is on the toddle and can occupy himself in the garden (no pond!) I'll be able to get in there and clean the connections up myself.

Thanks again - I'll let you know if the problem comes back. Of course, since I posted this, it hasn't happened......

- (#9856) SarahR, 23 Apr 04 12:06