Anyone have any experience of using Biodiesel in a Townie? One warning from Biodiesel suppliers in my area is about rubber fuel hoses can be affected... Then there's the radical possibility of a conversion to run on Veg Oil... Any comments? Eric (Brighton)

- (#9999) Eric Ballard, 9 Apr 04 13:31

No problems whatsoever. If the rubber is over 5 years old it will no longer be attacked. Any new seals will be neoprene. New cheap hose is likely to be rubber, go for the more expensive clear tube if it is needed.
No timing changes needed. The only thing is it will search out any dirt in your tank so check the fuel filter often.
Now what do you mean by bio-diesel? I used 100% used cooking oil - not the 95% fossil Diesel plus 5% addatives (much the same as normal pump Diesel - anti foam agents/cold start addative/sulphur replacement), sold as bio-diesel throughout Europe.

- (#9999) Clive (Bristol), 11 Apr 04 11:02

I use, fairly regularly, a mix of 2/3 fossil diesel & 1/3 straight veggie oil, purchased from Tesco in 15 litre drums, 50p a litre, plus the tax, works out about 6-7p a litre cheaper than DERV, but gives exceptionally better power & economy than ordinary DERV.

No other changes or effects noted at present.

Regards Rob.

- (#9999) Rob Drinkwater, 12 Apr 04 03:50

Clive,

Looking at other postings I guess you live in Patchway area. I'm in Yate with a 2.8 Hiace non-turbo and am keen to explore the veggie route. I've been reading a lot on the web about people who have dual tanks for diesel/Oil and switch over. They also say the Bosch injection pumps run veggie better than most and that Toyota use a Nippon Bosch copy.

I also read about veg oil is thicking and that fuel heaters are used to thin it out before passing into the injection pump.

Like I say keen to here your experience with these things.

Also what process do you use to clean up the used chip shop oil ? Do you seperate out any animal fats that might be in there ? or is that not a problem.

Does cold weather effect things or do you only go veggie when weather is warmer.

Thanks Jason.

- (#9999) Jason Bamford, 12 Apr 04 13:29

Jason you have mail...

- (#9999) Clive (Bristol), 12 Apr 04 14:35

I am very interested in bio-diesel. I understand that fossil diesel has many additives to make it burn cleanly, so what happens with 100% veg oil? I have heard it has lower emissions. Does anyone have any experience of taking an MOT while running bio-diesel?

- (#9999) Malcolm Stroud, 15 Apr 04 06:46

Yes, not the lowest ever but the best they had seen on a 13 year old engine by far.

- (#9999) Clive, 15 Apr 04 06:52

Just started using 100% Biodiesel which is available from Magpie Recycling in Brighton. Been advised to use it mixed with DERV for a few fillings and then to chewck the filter as it clears out gunk. Hoping to then use 100% biodiesel. Bit reluctant to start uysing veg oil in the mix as heard it can cause problems. Interested to read comments from those who are using it tho"!

- (#9999) Eric Ballard, 15 Apr 04 13:54

Good to find a source in Sussex. Magpie say theirs is 10% methanol, 90% used chip fat but not made locally.

It looks as though we diesel Townace owners may be getting a break here - having a vehicle which can run, unmodified, on a fuel which gives a bit more power as well as better economy.

Two important points to me are ...

Don't get caught on the road without proof that fuel-VAT has been paid at the correct rate on what's gone into your tank.

Don't let's confuse three very different fuels which seem to be:
1. Mass-produced "Biodiesel" which is 5% bio and 95% ordinary DERV diesel, regarded as a bit green but sold at pumps as suitable for any diesel vehicle, even a new one without affecting it's warranty.
2. Freshly produced vegetable oil - not cheap, not sold tax-paid as fuel, not suitable as fuel for a Townace without modification.
and
3. Modified waste vegetable oil which is over 90% bio. You can make it and pay VAT yourself, or outlets are popping up where you can buy it as ready-to-use fuel.

I suspect we still need to hear a lot about how Townaces start, run, accelerate, and even break down using "veggy oil" but every time we need to know which of these very different fuels was used.
- (#9999) Dave Mason (Sussex), 16 Apr 04 08:40

Very neatly put Dave. Just a couple of points - it's Road Fuel Tax not VAT and the addative to MWVO may well be bio also making it 100% bio.
If you buy from someone get a bill of sale, it's then their job to prove RFT has been paid.
Be aware that MWVO will be dark to golden brown, NOT BLUE similar to dilute blackcurrant juice. If you are sold blue MWVO it is likely to be red Diesel that has been bleached, very illegal! MWVO is also very oily, not at all runny like fossil Diesel.

- (#9999) Clive (Bristol), 16 Apr 04 10:00

Dave or Clive, what mods do you have to make for pure veg oil. I thought you could just add and mix with derv say 50/50 (and pay RFT). Or do you have to add 3 to 5% white spirit by vol of veg oil, heater, heat exchanger?

PS I have e-mailed a local supplier in Plymouth to see if they deliver bulk 200 litres of MWVO. No reply yet.
- (#9999) Marcus Rogers (Cornwall), 16 Apr 04 11:21

Having warned of confusion I may have added to it. Further contact with Magpie, Brighton suggests that I was misled earlier. Their fuel does not contain 10% methanol. Methanol is used in refining it and a trace may remain. It is different from what Clive is using in that it is "waste chip fat" that is chemically refined (the glycerol is removed). Still effectively 100% bio but may or may not produce such wonderful results.
As for using pure new veg oil etc I think it's best to hear from people who actually done it, either here or on other websites which I'm adding to the Reference page on Ace Answers.

- (#9999) Dave Mason (Sussex), 16 Apr 04 12:53

mixing 50/50 you may get away without any mods. most of the conversions suggest two tanks and filter systems. one small one for derv to start and end with, and veg oil one for use once on the go, this may also have some form of heating element.
all too much trouble for me so opted for the simple mwvo solution, which is cheaper as i get most of the old oil for free!
would that be bio-power (plymouth), jonathon stromberg? if it is he makes his fuel much the same as i do, but on a far larger scale. and yes 200 litres at a time would be no problem for him. i have used some of his fuel and it is as good as mine.


- (#9999) Clive (Bristol), 17 Apr 04 04:15

Yes Clive, it is Bio-power (Plymouth), Jonathon Stromberg. I have e-mailed again no reply...I think Ill give them a ring on Monday. All I want to know is if they can deliver (55 miles) 200 litres at a time, if they supply a container and what the all in price would be. Their forecourt price I know is 64p a litre. Im seriously thinking about having a go myself though.
I use B5 bio-diesel at the moment as I have a supplier 1 mile from me, it does improve economy and is quieter.

- (#9999) Marcus (Cornwall), 17 Apr 04 09:55

I've put a new page in the Ace Handbook on this subject. Comments, corrections, new web links - all welcome.

- (#9999) Dave Mason (Sussex), 19 Apr 04 02:42