My CR30 TownAce (1989 2.0TD 4x4 auto) is starting to run hot - very evident thanks to my Mason alarm. I don't hear the fan coming on anymore, it did on Friday but not yesterday. I gather it might be failing or perhaps the fan belts are slipping. I'm going to have a look this morning but any advice would be appreciated.
Townace.com appears to be down at the moment - is the fan clutch the same for the petrol van with the 2.2l motor? Does anyone have the Toyota part number for the fan clutch? Hard to replace?
Thanks
Andrew
- (#11641) Andrew, 21 Jun 04 09:44
Sounds like the coupling OK. Easy to replace tho, four nuts hold the fan on, then another four hold it onto the pulley.
p/no 16210-64020. Unique part number to the townie, but the other item *might* just interchange. Dunno.
- (#11641) David Miller, 21 Jun 04 10:00
Good to hear the temp gauge mod arrived and is doing its stuff.
The clutch is easy to replace. Cost about £130 I think. I can't say the part number. 4 10mm AF nuts behind the fan hold on the fan clutch (and the fan) as well as the fanbelt(s) pulley. You can get the nuts off without removing the driver's floor but very little holds the pulley on then. It sits on a projection about 3mm thick so may drop off unless you press it well back towards the engine. If it does jump off then the belt tension makes it very difficult, but not impossible, to get back on with out removing the floor to move the alternator and slacken belt(s).
www.townace.com is working for me but has been altered so there may be a snag for you. Try giving it a bit more time. Have you chosen your own browser?
- (#11641) Dave Mason (Sussex), 21 Jun 04 10:03
belts are glazed quite badly, the fan/alternator belt particularly so. applied some "belt dressing" as a stopgap measure while i wait for my replacement belts (full set of 3) to arrive from japan. as the fan belt is showing several cracks on the inside, i may need to search for a more readily available source... i think the slippage may have been the reason for this recent hot episode. in any case, with the dressing, i can hear the fan above 3,000 rpm and it does seem to be running a little cooler. here's hoping.
"ace answers loading. - " is what i get for www.mpvi.net in both old ie 4.0 (which i've been using only for mpvi.net) and netscape 7.1.
- (#11641) Andrew, 22 Jun 04 02:53
Sorry it doesn't work in IE 4.0 but that's almost as old as your Townace. I am working on it (the Javascript) to make it as standard as possible. Should be OK in IE 5.5 onwards.
- (#11641) Dave Mason (Sussex), 22 Jun 04 03:10
I can load the site in IE 6.something and have registered, but I can't load the site in Firefox. I also get the "Ace Answers loading. - " note
- (#11641) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 22 Jun 04 04:55
If you want a free up grade to IE6 then copy this link to your address bar.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/it/hrproject/upgrade.html
- (#11641) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 22 Jun 04 05:11
Yes, people (?) are successfully visiting the site every 2 or 3 minutes with IE version 5.01 upwards as their browser. (IE = Microsoft Internet Explorer in case you're wondering). Simplifying the website is proving very complicated! Congratulations Dave on being the first to register.
- (#11641) Dave Mason (Sussex), 22 Jun 04 05:16
Woo hoo. Number 1
- (#11641) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 22 Jun 04 05:18
So, ultimately, the fan clutch was dead - was working intermittently but not necessarily at the higher temps when it was required. Drove carefully using heater to help cool the motor but an issue for sure.
Replaced the clutch with an aftermarket part by "Cooling Depot" - bolt pattern etc matched up, however, the protusion on the crank didn't match up with the recess in the fan clutch - original Aisin clutch had a deeper recess - ended up using 3 washers on each stud to get it to space it appropriately.
New fan/alternator belt was required - 17x395mm fit fine.
Now, question regarding modified temp gauge. I have Mason alarm installed - my temp guage is reading in the right half... assuming red section takes rightmost two dots, my fan kicks in two dots further left of the red. I am running quite often (with moderate load) around this mark currently - daytime temps are currently in the mid to high 20s (celsius) and altitude is 4,000 ft plus. I have my alarm set at over 4, about 4 1/4 on the dial. Does this sound right or should I be looking for issues? Perhaps the thermostat should be inspected/tested? I can go up steep hills with a load if I keep the revs above 3,000 rpm. Still the temp reads two dots left of the red.
Please advise.
Thanks
Andrew
- (#11641) Andrew - Canmore, Alberta, Canada, 28 Jun 04 22:55
Thought I should add that cooling hose going from rad to thermostat doesn't feel near as hot as other hoses such as small (return?) hose near rad cap or the other large hose closer to the turbo side of rad. Presumably this is how it should be?
Thanks
Andrew
- (#11641) Andrew , 28 Jun 04 23:08
Andrew,
First the rad is doing what it should hot in cooler out.
I think I can put your mind at rest re the Mason Alarm.
I drove through the Alps, not sure of the altitude but up there somewhere, and on some long steep climbs, fully loaded with family and camping kit. The needle on the guage in normal use is just in contact with the top indicator on the thermometer. Going uphill under load often sees space between the top one and the second one, at this point the vicous fan is working at it's limit, pushing the Ace a little more sets the alarm off and the needle can go into the red. Given no option but to drive on on the busy Alpine roads, I quickly adopted the routine of putting the front heater on full heat, this extra rad gave just enough cooling to keep out of the red but the alarm was still going off and on. Once able to pull over the temp would quickly return to normal.
That was nearly a year ago, the alarm has gone off a few times since then, and I just ease off now. I have lost no water at all in all the time I have had the Townace. As a test under normal temp, I put the heater on and check that the guage moves to the left a bit.
Over one year on and I am confident that the Mason Alarm is doing it's job and makes the temp guage a working tool as a bonus.
- (#11641) Clive (Bristol UK), 29 Jun 04 01:30
Thanks Clive,
That helps - as the temp gauge is so sensitive now, it definitely registers any difference in load etc - I just wasn't sure how high it should be getting. Clients sometimes notice how far towards the red it seems to go - I guess I'm on edge because of the recent fan clutch failure. The heater use definitely helps and I can get away with having to use it on the highway if really necessary, however one route that I use regularly has a steep gravel climb and I need to keep the windows closed because of the dust. Heater use would not go over well, I could really use the A/C but it also moves the needle - in the opposite direction. I'll move the alarm box back under the dash so the alarm isn't as loud - til now I've had it top of the column. Good to know what I'm seeing is appropriate for the usage - to think the gauge never moved under the same conditions pre-Mason alarm.
Thanks
Andrew
- (#11641) Andrew (Canadian Rockies), 29 Jun 04 09:03
I thought it best to let someone else comment on my temp gauge mod first.
The thing is that although it's usually referred to as an "alarm" it is designed to seriously improve how the gauge indicate the head temperature. Perhaps "improve" is the wrong word since without this modification, as Andrew says, the Toyota gauge doesn't really tell you anything at all about the head temperature once the engine has warmed up - that is until you're approaching melt-down and bankruptcy.
The design was tricky because of variations between the responses of the sensors, gauges and thermostats in different Aces. The compromise with which I ended up does take the needle close to the red in some vehicles, others it "unsticks" but then only moves a little over half way across the born-again gauge. So you get a working gauge and an audible alarm but not an indication of actual temperature in degC.
- (#11641) Dave Mason (Sussex), 1 Jul 04 02:43
Well, motor's getting hot again. Granted the weather's been hot too, but the fan definitely is not blowing as hard as it was - thought it was the coupling but I'm betting it's the belt slipping. New belt was not OEM and I didn't prep the pulleys after they had glazed up with the previous belt.
New belts should arrive tomorrow - I may actually put my old fan clutch back on too and see if that might have been the problem all along.
Andrew
- (#11641) Andrew, 16 Jul 04 00:48
Well, replaced the fan/alternator belt and the ribbed belt below (vacuum pump?). Put the original Aisin fan clutch back on and it would appear that it WAS the old belt slipping that caused the overheating to begin with. It was badly glazed and causing enough slippage to hamper the fans ability to really push enough air (so one could hear it). Should be back to normal - test drive this evening suggests it is.
Happy to report I didn't lose any coolant through this episode - ran heater to assist in cooling. Definitely some hot air coming through :-).
Also received oem mud flaps for the rear of the van and a headrest that were missing at time of purchase. Mudflaps should help reduce the amount of mud/shrapnel hitting my trailer and the bikes mounted on it.
K&N air filter should arrive this week - will post results upon install.
Cheers
Andrew
- (#11641) Andrew (Canadian Rockies), 20 Jul 04 00:53
Well done Andrew, your research & findings will be very helpful to others. I did not follow the start of your thread but, had similar problems a while back, resulting in the replacement of the Aisin viscous coupling which, with hindsight, might not have been necessary if I had paid more attention to the belts. In my opinion,the condition, quality, tension etc of the fan belts, is all important because, when the V coupling is "locked" up, due to the bimetallic sensor doing it's job, there is a great load on the belts. I understand that those who convert to electic fans, find a good increase in HP so, presumably, that extra HP must be required, just to drive a fifteen inch fan. Toyota did change the design from a single pulley to a double pulley so, possibly, belt slippage, with the single pulley, may well have been an issue.
- (#11641) John Davis (Leics), 20 Jul 04 01:15