(Home) Fuel smell and poor warm starting, Spacecruiser

My Space Cruiser (Model F 2.0 Auto 1986)has always been difficult to start when warm, and often smells of petrol after ending a run long enough to heat the engine to operating temperature. It starts first time cold, and first time hot, but warm...floor the accelerator pedal and turn over for five seconds or so, and it splutters into life with black smoke. Fine after that. This happened with old and new carburetor, and old and new engine, so these should not really be the problem. Fuel pressure seems to be a problem as it improved slightly when I changed the fuel cap. No longer a huge whoosh when taking the cap off, now a more gentle hiss. Fuel smells occasionally in traffic jams too, but nothing on motorway - purrs along fume free (ps Shell Optimax is brilliant). Any ideas anybody please?

- (#12401) Phil, 29 Jul 04 16:32

Auto Choke sticking? Mixture too rich?

Optimax? Boosts the octane rating from the usual 95 to a higher 98 RON. I was recommended to use it on my MR2. Used it for 3 months then reverted back to cheaper supermarket 95 stuff. Not a ha'porth of difference. Same performance and same fuel consumption. Might be better in the turbo versions but not in the normally aspirated engines. As for the Spacecruiser engine, I'm surprised you can tell a difference. Not a placebo effect is it?

- (#12401) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 30 Jul 04 01:02

Warm starting - autochoke not set right. Sounds like it is flooding. Did the autochoke get changed with the carb?
Fuel smell - all the fuel lines and filter fit and well?
Vacuum in the fuel tank is normal, happens on Townace Diesels also.

- (#12401) Clive (Bristol), 30 Jul 04 01:07

Ian and Clive. Thank you for replying so quickly. The old carb was auto choke; the new carb (four years ago) has a manual choke. The previous owner changed the old carb for the new one to cure the problem. It obviously didn't. I think carb flooding is the problem too, which points to float chamber needle, but surely not on both old and new carbs. And it only does it occasionally on short runs or when turning off after a long run. I've taken the fuel feeder pipe off the carb and noticed the fuel keeps running even when engine is turned off, presumably due to the pressure in the system.

All the symptoms are of too much fuel being delivered in particular circumstances. Do you know if the petrol pump has a valve in it that might stick open when it shouldn't? And any ideas how many petrol tank breathers there are - I've founfd the obvious one but are there any others? Thanks again

- (#12401) Phil Pearce, 30 Jul 04 07:57

So.........If indeed you have found a petrol tank breather pipe, then why is the tank still vacuuming or pressurising? (Just a thought)

- (#12401) Devon Dave, 30 Jul 04 08:31

The breather returns to the filler pipe on the tank side of the filler cap, it does not breathe to the atmosphere. Now I recall another pipe that crossed over to a round thingy under the air filter box, don't have a clue what that is all about, not got one on the Diesel.
My pump was mechanical so only pumped when the engine was running.

- (#12401) Clive (Bristol), 30 Jul 04 11:25

Yes, Clive, petrol cars use a charcoal vapour trap to collect the fuel vapour on expansion. This is then (usually) vented to the manifold at certain times to extract and then burn the vapours. Better to have a slightly rich mixture than allow unburnt HCs into the atmosphere...

As to the actual problem, I don't know. But japanese carbs are reknowned for having odd vacuum setups- restrictors, valves etc. Get one wrong as it's a nightmare.

- (#12401) David Miller, 30 Jul 04 11:43

Thanks everybody. You've given me plenty to work on. I've got one of those round thingy's and it looks suspiciously like its got charcoal in it - or had. Apparently not touched since 1986, so off to my local pet shop for some aquarium filter charcoal.

I've also found that the gasket on top of the carb that joins to the air filter pipe is not air tight, meaning that the carb is drawing air from the hot engine bay as well as through the air filter. If it can draw air in, it can certainly let fumes out. I ran the car for twenty minutes with the air filter disconnected (I know I shoudn't) and not one smell of petrol. I think (hope) that we are getting there. Thank you again. Phil

- (#12401) Phil Pearce, 30 Jul 04 16:01

Hope I did not get too techy going for the Latin name of the charcoal filter = "the round thingy" ?

- (#12401) Clive (Bristol), 30 Jul 04 16:18

The Charcoal filter thingy has been taken off but it seems to be unserviceable (there is a sort of nut that might once have been turnable, but now well rusted in. The bag of Safeway charcoal briquettes thus remains unopened. I have searched the web for problems with charcoal canisters and there are many, and not just Toyota, all with the same problems as me. Apparently 99% of bikers, and many Jeepers, in the USA disconnect theirs as it also allegedly restricts horse power, though I take that with a pinch of salt. Back to my problem, there are three pipes going into the canister; one joins underneath, and comes through one of the chassis strengtheners that run across the width of the Cruiser; two are on top - a thin plastic
pipe connects to the carb, a thicker rubber hose joins to another rubber hose near the carburettor via a valvy looking thing, and presumably returns to somewhere near the fuel tank. Trouble is I do not know which one blows and which one sucks. Any ideas how to (temporarily) disconnect this so that I can establish if this really is the problem. I also understand that the canister controls fuel pressure in the tank; if this is so I might have to be careful what I do. This will probably concen all other old Toyata petrol engine owners too.

- (#12401) phildpearce@onetel.com, 4 Aug 04 17:26

Sorry I can't tell you what pipes go where. Can't you pull the pipes off and get a feel for what blows or sucks with the engine running and sticking your finger over the end of the tubes?

As for replacing the charcoal if you ever get the thing open. Simply replacing the contents with barbecue charcoal is not the answer. Undoubtedly the contents will be 'activated charcoal' which acts like a chemical 'sponge' for gases and some liquids. You would need to buy it from a laboratory suppliers or the like. Have you enquired at Mr T for a replacement canister? Is the cost too prohibitive?

- (#12401) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 5 Aug 04 01:03

Problem solved! I spoke to a friendly man at Weber Carbs ...

Me: "I've got a bit of a problem with my charcoal canister, and would like to remove it. Do I have to block the ports on the carb or anything?"

Friendly man: "Is it a Hiace?"

Me: "No, a Space Cruiser"

Friendly man: "Does it still have the valve on the hose between the canister and the carb?"

Me: "Yes"

Friendly man: "Remove it, and then rejoin the hoses"

And that was it. And it worked. Hiace users also take note.

- (#12401) Phil Pearce, 7 Aug 04 15:54