I'm stuck. The air hoses and the heat shields are off. The bottom row of manifold/head fixings look hard to reach. It looks easier to tackle the 4 14mm nuts between the turbo and the manifold, where the archives suggest an S- or C-shaped spanner. I have got the easiest one loose already and think that I can imagine the ideal spanner for the job.
Can anyone point to a picture or a mail order source of such a spanner, they seem hard to get and I may try making something up from a non-cranked ring spanner.
Any other suggestions?
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 10 Aug 04 08:02
Hi Dave.
If I recall this correctly, there is an exhaust bracket underneath, or securing the turbo. Undo it and there is no need to remove the exhaust manifold. Leave it in place and when the head is unbolted just lif up and towards the passenger door.
- (#12614) dave Bright, 10 Aug 04 08:22
All of the manifold-to-head fixings will come out with a 1/2" drive socket using a selection of extensions, believe it or not. With the bracket slackened off under the turbo, the manifold will then pull back far enough to clear it's studs. A "C" shaped spanner is just the job for the four awkward nuts, and any good tool shop should be able to help. Try also the term "obstruction wrench/ spanner" You could always cut and weld an ordinary ringer I suppose...
David
- (#12614) David Miller, 10 Aug 04 08:28
http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/
Do next day delivery
- (#12614) Clive (Bristol), 10 Aug 04 08:48
Glad to be introduced to that website, tks Clive. And it helps to know the term "obstruction wrench" and see what shape they are.
I had imagined something curved in the other plane - working more like putting a crows foot wrench on the end of an extension, though neither the offset nor the strength of a crows foot might be adequate. And what I've been struggling with is to get some impact to unstick the nuts.
Anyway I, and anyone else reading this, have got several fresh options now, thanks
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 10 Aug 04 09:58
All good advice and, yes, my experience has been that the exhaust manifold can be left in situ. However, it's wise to run a straight edge over it's face and check, with feelers, if there is any distortion when it is unbolted. If it is "out of true", it's a bit of a pain but a dressing with a file will avoid problems later on. I found that the re-build is much easier if the inlet manifold is assembled onto the head but, not necessarily bolted down, prior to it,s installation.
I find that the "C" shaped spanner is best for those tubo flange nuts. Originally, I too tried to make up something with it's curve in the vertical plane but it was not successful.
- (#12614) John Davis(Leics), 10 Aug 04 11:24
Have not had time to touch the job again yet.
Dave (Bright), your "no need to remove the exhaust manifold". Did you mean lift the turbo out with the head? There seem to be two oil? pipes and a coolant hose between the turbo and the block, and one coolant hose to the head.
David (Miller), if you say it, I believe it! My doubts were more to do with getting the manifold/head nuts back on but I guess either that's equally do-able or by that time I'll have had better access to open the turbo/manifold joint. Does the exhaust pipe have to come off the bottom of the turbo for your method, or do you expect the exhaust system to "give" enough to move the manifold off the studs in the head?
John, does your "the exhaust manifold can be left in situ" mean in the car with the turbo, or installed on the head? Yes, will inspect the manifold - and lots of other things; very interesting to be doing this myself - though I can call in my mechanic neighbour to assist if necessary.
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 11 Aug 04 03:09
Hi Dave,
yes like Dave Miller says unbolt the turbo bracket, then the exhaust/Turbo/Manifold can be pulled back clear of the studs and not removed from the engine bay.
- (#12614) dave Bright, 11 Aug 04 03:20
That's still not entirly clear is it?
Unbolt the exhaust manifold from the head, unbolt the turbo mounting bracket, then the exhaust/Turbo/Manifold can be pulled towards the drivers door so that the manifold is clear of the studs in the head, so that the head can be removed without the need to remove the exhaust/Turbo/Manifold from the engine bay.
- (#12614) dave Bright, 11 Aug 04 03:24
That's clear Dave, thanks. Much better than anything I've found in the archives.
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 11 Aug 04 03:28
"John, does your "the exhaust manifold can be left
in situ"
Dave (Mason) Yes, Dave (Bright) has given the answer which I intended to send. Good luck.
- (#12614) John Davis (Leics), 11 Aug 04 06:29
Dave, you'll have to disconnect the turbo from the downpipe, yes. Be warned that the head is a heavy bugger- one man can just about lift it off...
David
- (#12614) David Miller, 11 Aug 04 07:12
Thanks John and David. Yes I know I will need help lifting the head out - in fact I don't trust myself disentangling the cambelt in such a way that it could go back on if the problem is luckily confined to the head gasket. Otherwise my next thread may well be "Engine removal 2CT"!
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 11 Aug 04 07:41
Hi Dave,
depending on when you last changed the belt, and I think it was recently wasn't it? you may be best off fitting a new one. My mechanic once told me its not good practise to refit a belt after it has been tensioned once, but other board members have said its not necessary.
- (#12614) dave Bright, 11 Aug 04 07:46
The cambelt's been on a couple of years and refitted earlier this year after I changed the water pump to cure a leak, apparently from its gasket. My mechanic considers that's OK to re-use the canbelt if it looks sound and you make sure you put it back on to run the same way round.
Thing is, if it looks like a head gasket will fix it then it may be best to reassemble and test before doing the extra work to get the cambelt right off to change it - at present the only things I've got off the front are the fan, its pulley and belts, and the top two plastic cambelt covers.
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 11 Aug 04 08:05
The 8 manifold/head fixings are out - I hadn't realised that all except the middle top two are bolts - that makes handling the hidden ones easier. Strange that the back two were 17mm and the rest were 14mm.
Turbo/downpipe joint is also free but I only removed one end of the turbo bracket and it looks as if I need to get it right off.
The EGR pipe round the back is still on, and the EGR valve on the end of it (without vacuum valve and bracket) seems to prevent the manifold moving sideways clear of the studs. Connections either end of the EGR pipe look fiddly insitu - any tips there? does it have to come off? which end? It's been disabled for a year or more and I intend to blank it off on re-assembly - the mess in the inlet manifold is awesome/awful.
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 12 Aug 04 08:24
Pull the EGR pipe at the exhaust end. It's no big deal. And yes, remove the turbo bracket completely.
Hmm, the 17mm manifold fixings sure sound like it's been off and stripped before...
- (#12614) David Miller, 12 Aug 04 09:04
For the record ...
The two 12mm nuts at the exhaust manifold/EGR join weren't as rusty as expected so that was OK.
The engine end of the turbo bracket is a bolt into the block and it looks as though just removing that end would've been sufficient, it's easier than the nut under the turbo - I did the wrong one first!
The no. 4 injector pipe has to come right off and I needed to remove the starter to get at it.
The dipstick tube was not fixed to the inlet manifold. The only thing I'd missed when I first tried to lift it was a water hose (rear heater?) low down at the back of the head, passenger side.
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 13 Aug 04 09:27
Minor correction to last posting - jut in case anyone ever follows this as instructions ...
I found a stainless steel strap under the 2nd, lower inlet manifold fixing, slightly mangled - looks as though it held the dipstick tube. Maybe it pulled off over the flared end, maybe it wasn't used after previous work.
- (#12614) Dave Mason (Sussex), 16 Aug 04 03:23
Dave, that dipstick bracket is one of the most fiddly things when you come to reassemble. I replaced it with a "slotted hole" bracket which made things much easier. You are right, on the few Townace engines which I have been involved with, half of them had the dipstick tube unsecured at the top end.
- (#12614) John Davis(Leics), 16 Aug 04 03:27