At some point in the near future I’m might have my engine and tranny out of my 88 TD (2-ct) 4x4 auto Townace. What I am contemplating (dreaming) is if I’m going to already have the engine out I might as well put in a different one. Basically I would really love to have an electronic fuel injected diesel. Obviously if I switch to electronic injection the wiring would be a huge task for this engine conversion. However, if I wanted to take on such a task what would be the best engine? The criteria I’m looking for in an engine are primarily efficiency, longevity and reliability. However, the simpler the engine is to swap with my 2-ct the better. I have heard that there is a 2.4 liter turbo diesel with electronic injection in mid-90’s Townaces. Is this true? What was the engine called? Would it work with my 88 auto box? Another option I have heard might work is the 3.0 liter TDI from the Toyota Surf Hilux. Would this be the best engine for the swap? Would it work with my tranny? What is the name of this engine? I will be most appreciative if anyone has any advice.
Thanks, Lee
- (#13951) Lee Laskin, 29 Oct 04 16:49

Nope. The biggest diesel in a townie is the 3C-T which is 2.2, and mechanical injection. The 2 and 3CTE engines were used in Estima, CarinaE/ Avensis, Picnic, and maybe another one or two I can't recall just now. You could either swap the pump onto your lump, or keep a fresh engine more-or-less intact and just transfer the ancillaries- including the turbo and manifolds.
Only the wiring to sort then, it'll mate to your tranny and mounts. Easiest option.

To go for an L- series (2.4) would be a total nightmare. You'd be looking at bellhousing mods or, a complete tranny out of a Surf. And the 3.0 from the Hilux is a rare engine that'd need loads of mods to cram in...

If you really want to be different you could always go with a VW TDI (reliable, easy to tune). It's a popular conversion in the US for Suzuki SJs and there's various adaptors available.

- (#13951) David Miller, 30 Oct 04 02:17

Thanks for the help David,
So if I'm hearing you correctly it sounds as if the 3CTE would be the easiest option. How much of an improvement would the 3CTE be over the 2-CT? Would it be much more reliable and better on fuel consumption? How many hours do you think it would take a skilled mechanic to complete the conversion?
Thanks
Lee
- (#13951) Lee Laskin, 30 Oct 04 03:00

3CTE could still be difficult, as the Townie only used the 3CT, not electronically controlled. The vehicles that used the 3CTE had it mounted completely differently to the Townie, the Lucidas have it in on it's side, the Avensis etc are front wheel drive & transverse engine, this all makes it more difficult.

I have to ask the question as to why you want electronic injection so badly, these engines are not common rail, like modern diesels, all that was electronic was the pump timing, the rest of the injection was still the same old mechanical system, just more accurately timed as it uses a stepper motor to adjust injection timing, rather than relying on increasing pump body pressure.

As David says, if you really want to put something different go for the VW 1.9 TDI lump, easily tunable for 180 BHP with a chip, but carry a spare air mass meter with you, they are notoriously unreliable.

Regards Rob.

- (#13951) Rob Drinkwater , 30 Oct 04 19:05

I think you might be right Rob; it might not be worth all the trouble of swapping to a new engine if it isn't going to be that huge of an improvement. I was thinking that if there was a completely modern Toyota Diesel (with common rail injection, and the like) that would fit in the van and work with my tranny, then I would think about it. But by the sounds of things it would be a major pain to even get any newer electronic engine in my van and it wouldn't even be that much better. So I guess I'll just live with my 2-CT for now. My main impious for considering the swap to electronic fuel injection is my dissatisfaction with my fuel efficiency. Now if I understand David Miller correctly when he said above that “You could either swap the pump onto your lump, or keep a fresh engine more-or-less intact and just transfer the ancillaries- including the turbo and manifolds.
Only the wiring to sort then, it'll mate to your tranny and mounts. Easiest option” then it is possible to take the electronic injection components from a 2-CTE or 3-CTE engine and put them on my 2-CT. Correct? How much would these electronic injector actually help my fuel efficiency?
Thanks,
Lee
- (#13951) lee laskin, 1 Nov 04 00:31

Lee,
What MPG are you getting?
- (#13951) Clive (Bristol), 1 Nov 04 01:32

Correct, Lee. Won't help the efficency that much. You're still running a high-compression pre-chamber engine, and the injections pressures are the same for manual and electronic nozzles AFAIK. The Denso VE pump is handier to put on than a Bosch one, as there's no needle-lift sender, and I don't think it needs a crank sensor either. But all it's doing as Rob says is electronically controlling IQ (quantity) and timing WRT boost, ambient and coolant temps. As I've seen quite a number of late Estimas smoking like trains I'd have to say it aint perfect...

Even if you got all the kit cheap and were able to do the conversion yourself, you'd be quite a while recouping the outlay.

Oh, and don't even think about trying to get a d4-d engine in there. Won't mate to your tranny, probably no longitudinal mounting points, plus no doubt the electronics would require you to use the instruments etc from the donor car...

- (#13951) David Miller, 1 Nov 04 01:48

I remember reading some years ago about a guy in Australia who had a 3 litre engine put in his 4x4 Auto Townie (I think it was petrol not diesel). From the reading it must have been a total nightmare and expensive to do because a bellhousing had to be specialy manufactured, wiring had to be altered, engine electronic control units changed, the brakes had to be uprated and the radiator had to be re-positioned as well as other items that had to be modified or moved. It was done as a custom job by a specialist company for show use and not for everyday road use. It would be interesting to know if the vehicle is still in existance as it must be one of the most modified and unusual Townies in the World.

- (#13951) Bil, 1 Nov 04 15:39

I have both. The 2c auto in my caldina(like corona) is basic and like yours, a little pokie compared to the accelleration of the 2.2 turbo manual in my townie. Fuel consumtion seems the same. I think well set up turbos are more fuel efficiant, though may incur maintenance, due to the extra parts. the 2.2 seems livelier, though my 2c on auto trans has real badly design ratios and lockoff function. I think toyota may have designed it for a petrol engine? It locks off at 70km/hr in top. Trying to climb a hill at speed, have to drop back to 3rd which is screaming, gas off to 4th then straight into lockoff instead of slipping in 4th till 100km/hr when engine rpm would better suit lockoff. Quite surprised toyota got this box/engine match, spoilt an otherwise economical family wagon.

- (#13951) Frank, 2 Nov 04 06:10

Saw a 2.2 fitted in a townie that originally took a 2c. Stuck up high in the engine bay area, only just let seat bonnet shut. Easier to sell and buy exactly what you want. Spend your saved energy down the pub. engine mods on vans suck working on

- (#13951) fraNK, 2 Nov 04 06:17