I have a 93 CR30 (new Shape) Townace which has been loosing water for no visible reason for a considerable period of time... The recommended Toyota replacement Rad Cap was fitted two years ago (is this due a replacement? - it looks perect to my untrained eye)... There is no water in oil, or oil in water and no apparent power loss, or steam in exhaust (so reasonably happy that it is not the head gasket)... No overheating (needle went slightly past vertical on first occasion as expansion tank warning light was not working - it is now - and no further overheating problems in 1000's of kilometres)... I regularly check the fluid levels and the levels appear normal until I am notified by the warning light in the expansion tank that more fluid is needed!
I am increasingly convinced that the "losses" are infrequent but relatively large when they occur. To this end I today noticed water (apparently coolant, though not 100% sure) dripping rapidly from the chassis cross member immediately behind the engine, this was within 5 minutes of starting the vehicle from cold and after a journey of 500 metres followed by leaving the vehicle running. I did not notice the temp gauge. I was unable to locate a source for this fluid but believe it originated at the left hand side of the vehicle (this area looked damp and appeared to be the source for the liquid on the chassis).
If this was fluid (steam?) ejected from the expansion tank then the tank was all but empty (warning light on)after the event and there was no noticable emission from the overflow pipe (by the time I had lifted the seat)..Is this a plausible explanation?? I am suspecting a sticking Thermostat and have the Toyota replacement which I intend modifying with two 3mm holes (winter/ summer compromise??) before fitting. Is a leaking water pump also a possible suspect (and how do I check this)?? Thanks in advance for all help/ ideas, it is a puzzle I can not solve alone!!
I have read the very many submissions in the archives on this subject and really want to avoid a more serious cooling problem. To this end I have also tried to order one of Dave Mason's excellent looking Temp Gauges but keep finding the Credit Card link is unavailable...Any advice on this subject also gratefully received. Thanks Neil
- (#14100) Neil Midgley, 10 Nov 04 15:23
Don't hesitate - fit the DM gauge expander / alarm. Best little device invented since sliced bread. I delayed and paid the price - though got away lightly with only a head gasket and skim.
- (#14100) gordon davies, 10 Nov 04 16:02
I have found with mine that the Radiator cap doesn't always click completely home, and when it is not fully set I have a water loss problem.
The problem is the tube to the overflow bottle inhibits the cap from moving completely closed - it looks closed and goes tight, but it needs to go just about a half cm further around.
I didn't think it would make much difference, but I have not had to put any water in for several weeks, whereas before I noticed this I was topping it every week.
May not be your trouble, but worth checking.
- (#14100) DaveW, 10 Nov 04 21:37
Also check the overflow pipe running from the filler neck to the expansion bottle and the tube inside the bottle. If they are loose and not air tight, coolant won't be sucked back from the expansion bottle when the engine cools.
- (#14100) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 11 Nov 04 01:13
if you think the water you saw dripping when cold was coolant, then the car sounds like a good candidate for a cold pressure test. while garages use special kit to do the test, you can achieve the same as follows;
ensure that the system is topped up at the filler neck and the cap secured. get your hands on a bicycle pump or footpump. pull the overflow pipe off, and apply air pressure to the cooling system through it (tapered li-lo adaptor is good). pump the system up to 18-20psi, then stop. all the hoses will be firm to the touch. there should now be some hissing from the cap/ overflow, as the pressure reduces to cap operating pressure, then blissful silence. if it keeps hissing down until the system is depressurised, or hisses as you apply the pressure, you've got a cap/ filler neck problem (check the sealing face of the filler neck for corrosion or nicks). assuming that the hissing stops, leave alone for ten minutes, then check for leaks around the vehicle.
if after this period the system is still pressurised (try squeezing a hose, it should feel solid) and there's no sign of leaks,the system is externally sound. start the engine. immediate bubbling or water ejection from the overflow? duff head gasket...
why cold? some of the leaks we've seen on these cars are so minute (only needs to leak air, not water, to empty the cooling system...) that they seal themselves as the metal or whatever expands with heat. plus any leaking water evaporates off the component before you get a chance to see it.
hth
- (#14100) David Miller, 11 Nov 04 01:42
Neil, thanks, you've alerted me that the credit card link is not working, I'll try to find out what I need to change it to. In the meantime there are still the options to pay by phone or by cheque - it's not complicated, email me for more info.
- (#14100) Dave Mason (Sussex), 11 Nov 04 02:56
Credit card link sorted now. Thanks to Townace-owner Andy Lees. So go on, bombard him with orders!
- (#14100) Dave Mason (Sussex), 11 Nov 04 03:24
Neil. Your symptons are similar to my own. The archives have, almost, every check and remedy for cooling problems on these 2C engined vehicles and, originally, about 45.000 miles ago, I carried out most of them and, since then, I never had a problem until my recent winter check. The thermostat drillings, following David Millers experiments a couple of years ago, are essential in my opinion but, I feel that two bleed holes, in winter conditions, might make your heaters less than adequate for the first few miles after start up. I have stuck with a winter and summers stat, ie, three 3mm holes in the summer stat and one 3mm hole is the winter stat. Result, perfect but, a bit of a chore to change the stat every six months. As you may know, the rear heater feed/return pipes are part of the thermostat bypass on these engines and, suspiciously, you are seeing water dripping from the chassis member at the rear of the engine. Where the feed pipe comes in to the rear heater, covered up with an insulating sleeve, is an assembly with the two (flow & return) pipes bracketed to the chassis. There are a couple of tight bends and, due to corrosion and, possibly, vibration, I found a weep from one of the bends. This increased with flow and heat but, could not easily be seen, as the lost fluid gets blown away when the vehicle is running. If everything else has been checked, peel back the insulation from these rear heater/bypass pipes, just before the rear heater, and
check that you have no damage, to the rigid pipes. The corrosion seems to be worse on the actual bend and I think that it is helped by the inevitable vibration. It is quite easy, with copper pipe, to make up a new section here and, in my case, this was the answer.
- (#14100) John Davis(Leics), 11 Nov 04 04:40