Bought 1991 Townie (eBay!), overheated it on first big run,cracked cylinder head, new rad, big repairs, the usual. Now rad warning light comes on for about 10 minutes until engine temperature comes up to normal, then goes out. Is this OK or should we check draw-back system.
Planning to buy Mason's magic sensor. Our vehicle calls itself a "Masterace Surf." Is this the same as a Townace? Which version of the sensor do we need to order?
- (#14116) Enid Instone-Brewer, 11 Nov 04 17:54
Do you mean the orange radiator icon? That tells you the coolant is low in the expansion bottle. You would only expect that to go out if you topped up the level. Sounds like the wiring or sensor is iffy.
- (#14116) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 12 Nov 04 01:16
Expanding on Ian's point, if the level is low at start up, and the orange light is on, yopu have low coolant level in the expansion tank. Once the engine is up to temp, and as the coolant expands it overflows to the expansion tank and puts the light out.
Check your coolant level both in the engine and in the expansion tank.
Masterace has the same engine etc., just the outside in not the same. So yes the sensor should work but Dave Mason will confirm this.
- (#14116) Clive (Bristol), 12 Nov 04 01:25
Nice one Clive very 'punny' :-)
- (#14116) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 12 Nov 04 01:36
Thank you, gentlemen.I will do a drawback mechanism check as suggested by Dave Bright on Ace Answers. We've just had a new rad - could the coolant level be still settling down?
While I am tapping your vast fund of Ace wisdom - what coolant do you use in your 'Aces?
This is wonderful web resource and restores one's faith in human nature!
- (#14116) Enid Instone-Brewer, 12 Nov 04 02:57
1991 usually means the temp gauge has 20 dots across it - you need a standard "Mason Alarm". See Ace Answers > Cooling & heating > Temperature gauge > * Temperature gauge mod and alarm.
- (#14116) Dave Mason (Sussex), 12 Nov 04 03:02
Use a glycol based antifreeze ideally cut with distilled/deionised water. Anywhere between 2:1 and 1:1 water to antifreeze mix will suit the UK climate.
- (#14116) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 12 Nov 04 03:23
Mix de-ionised water with good antifreeze suitable for engines with alloy heads. 30 to 50% antifreeze depending on your local climate. Fill the system very slowly, take at least 5 minutes. An easy way is to siphon it through some 8mm tubing from the container in which you collect/mix/store it - avoids mess and awkward lifting.
- (#14116) Dave Mason (Sussex), 12 Nov 04 03:24
Thanks, and good it is to hear from Master Dave. I've just ordered the Mason Alarm and subscribed to Answers.
Our 1991 Townie is a 2l 4WD auto diesel - does this make any difference to the coolant preference? I see elsewhere on the site some discussion by Mr Bright on Toyota-specific coolant vs other kinds. Your advice gratefully received before I start topping up with the wrong stuff.
- (#14116) Enid Instone-Brewer, 12 Nov 04 03:37
No. Use as Dave says. The red 'For-Life' stuff from Toyota costs arm and a leg but only does the same job. I use it in my other Toyota but only because it was in when I bought it. Just make sure you give your cooling system a good back flush with a hosepipe before adding. Details again in the archives about how to best do this.
- (#14116) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 12 Nov 04 06:23
When it comes to choosing coolant it is more of a personal choice rather than selecting the right or wrong stuff. The worst choice would be no coolant, anything else is good. Down my way Toyota coolant costs much the same as any other coolant, but the sting is that Toyota coolant is a neat product, so if your system is 10 Litres, that’s how much you have to buy. If you go for ordinary coolant, you have to mix it with water, and a 50/50 mix will mean you only have to buy 5 litres of ordinary stuff, so as Ian says it works out considerably cheaper.
My preference for mixing is 50 50 because that is the easiest mix to achieve. One 5 litre tub mixed with 5 litres of water will produce enough coolant to fill the system and have a bit left over for future topping up if necessary.
The temp alarm is a wise decision. I fitted one last year, and its just started to tell me that all is not as it should be.
- (#14116) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 12 Nov 04 07:27
Thank you. You are all wonderful human beings!
- (#14116) Enid Instone-Brewer, 12 Nov 04 09:52
Steady on - Human beings is going a bit far!
- (#14116) Clive (Bristol), 12 Nov 04 11:15
Speak for yourself Clive !!!!
- (#14116) Rob Drinkwater , 14 Nov 04 16:11
When my Townace had its water pump replaced the garage filled it with the red coolant. I have recently had a coolant loss (extended high speed motorway driving!) and topped up with tap water.
I am now determining how to recover before the frost at the end of the week. The obvious is to drain completely (although I expect there will be some red coolant left behind) and refill with normal diluted antifreeze.
Alternatively is the red coolant 'strength' such that it can be diluted further (as I have done - possibly 3 - 4 litres water added).
Further can I mix 'red' with 'blue'?
- (#14116) Peter Dawson, 17 Nov 04 08:27
Hello Peter,
get a hydrometer, cost about £3.50, and it will tell you what temperature the coolant will freeze at. No need to replace it if its good down to -15 or so.
- (#14116) dave Bright (Bournemouth), 17 Nov 04 09:38
The issue with tap water is the limescale that can build up. Here in Sussex the water is very hard and de-ionised water is readily available in hardware shops, for steam irons, and at Halfords. In other areas where dissolved salts are not so much of a problem then de-ionised water may be more difficult to obtain, but then the local tap water may be OK.
- (#14116) Dave Mason (Sussex), 17 Nov 04 10:14
Hi Dave,
will get hydrometer - does it work properly with both blue & red coolant?
Can I mix red with blue if I need more protection?
- (#14116) Peter Dawson, 18 Nov 04 11:37
I believe it will work on any water based coolant, but if your in doubt ask them when you buy it.
Toyata's own coolant is a blend of all the usual stuff you would expect to find in any coolant, its just that theirs is already pre mixed with water. This ensures that the coolant will give maximum protection of their cooling systems all year round, all over the world. Depending on how much water you added, the only thing that will have changed is the frost protection. I have never used or tested Toyota's brand, so I dont know the base mark, but if the test shows a freezing point greater than -15, that should cover all parts of the uk. If its less than -15 then I guess you could add a bit of blue. Might turn it purple though!
- (#14116) dave Bright, 18 Nov 04 12:05
I live a relatively hardwater area (21 degrees of hardness) a cheaper(?) way to over come this problem - use your domestic filter such as a Britta.
Just purchased a 91 Lite ace 8 seater 2ltr TD auto (from local specialist import dealer) seems to be running well besides the temp problem is there anything I should be on the look out for?.
I'm just about to contribute to Dave Mason's site
- (#14116) Dave Norton, 23 Nov 04 09:23
Dave,
Welcome.
Thank you for your tip re hard water.
Your should have started your request for problem points in a new thread.
Frequent checks of all fluid levels, you get used to lifting the "bonnet".
If the timing belt has not been changed, change it before it's too late.
Otherwise a full service for a 13 year old car will prevent many problems and get you used to where/how/what things are.
On the possible overheating front purchase of a Mason Alarm is recommended, as is a good read of Ace answers.
Hope this helps?
Clive
- (#14116) Clive (Bristol), 24 Nov 04 03:20
Not wanting to sound argumentative but Britta etc filters surely only remove particles? This means that dissolved salts, such as calcium and carbonate ions are still in there waiting to solidify out later. Any expert comment?
I baulked at buying de-ionised water for a long time but it's only £2 or £3 for 5 litres and is surely a lot better solution given what is at stake?
- (#14116) Dave Mason (Sussex), 24 Nov 04 06:00
I was under the impression that the Brita water filters contain resins and the like for removing ions in a similar way to de-ionising columns and don't just filter out particles. However, as the replacement cartridges are only a few quid, the effectiveness is questionable. Personally I use the water that is the by-product from my dehumidifier. This is effectively distilled water not de-ionised. Not as good I know but it costs nowt and is better than using tap water.
- (#14116) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 24 Nov 04 06:27
This quote from Brita's website:
"Brita cartridges contain a combination of ion exchange resin and activated carbon. The carbon absorbs chlorine, pesticides and organic pollutants, improves taste, and eliminates odours and discoloration. It also contains an inhibitor that prevents bacterial growth. The ion exchange resin removes the temporary hardness, which causes limescale; it also significantly reduces levels of metals such as aluminium, copper and lead."
As I said previously, not as efficient as your industrial strength de-ioniser but more than a filtration device.
- (#14116) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 24 Nov 04 08:20
I stand corrected then. Clearly that type of cartridge does much more than filter out the particles and if it's working properly it may be as good as, or better than water that's packaged and sold as de-ionised.
As for dehumidifier water, it starts collecting impurities the moment it condenses on the evaporator, so I guess you'd need to make sure it's all clean inside. I vividly remember discovering this when in naive desperation I tried drinking water collected from an air-conditioner (hot country, drought, electricity but no water) - yuk.
- (#14116) Dave Mason (Sussex), 24 Nov 04 08:42
And whatever you do, NEVER use deionised water without antifreeze...
- (#14116) david miller, 24 Nov 04 08:43