My Townace has developed major problem,all warning lights on & alarm noise is sounding, battery is not charging. my mechanic has checked alternator & regulator but can not find the fault. does anyone know what else it could be?
- (#14356) Derek, 1 Dec 04 15:37
duff mechanic, at a rough guess. he might've "checked" the alt and reg, but patently he hasn't checked them together, in-situ. fuses, fusible links, brushes, connections, regulator. gotta check them all to verify that any one is ok...
- (#14356) david miller, 2 Dec 04 01:12
Just had a very similar problem Derek....At least I hope 'had' is the right term; been working on it tonight!
I started to get flat battery symptoms. I checked the voltage over the battery and it seemed ok - 14 ish volts which means it was charging ok. Then, couple of nights ago, I was driving along and the battery warning light came on along with the rad, oil level, yellow turbo light and couple of others I can't remember. My lights also began to get dimmer as well as the dash lights. When I turned off my lights the warning lights went out. Then they went out and stayed out for a while, then came back on again.
When I got back I checked the battery again (without earth lead connected) and found only 10 volts across the battery. Got it, I thought, one cell buggered.
To fetch my new battery I borrowed my neighbours lawnmower battery so I could drive it to the shop (he'd just had it on charge luckily, overnight - don't know why because he wasn't going to use it; must've had a preminition I was going to need it!). Before I had time to fit the new battery my wife sent me off on another errand and guess what, the bloody thing went flat again. This puzzled me because I knew the lawnmower battery was good.
I again checked with the voltmeter. With terminals connected, ignition off=12.45v When I turned the ignition on it went down to 11.5 ish. I took the earth lead off and it was 12.45 again.
I used some jump leads and connected my new battery (isolating lawnmower battery) and the same thing happened.
I took off the battery leads again and had a real good look and saw some of that lovely green corrosiony stuff on the +ive terminal connector. It didn't look bad at all, but all the same I gave them both a good clean up including the separate leads connected to the +ive terminal. At the same time I removed the drivers seat and all the other gummings and tightened the alternator belt. I knew the belt was a tad slack because I've been hearing it slip/squeak occasionally this last month or two, but I am quite sure this did not cause this warning light problem. What I do know now is that all my belts are worn and I'm hoping to get some tomorrow, which is why I came on the site in the first place to find out the sizes; because this is an extremely good site, and there we are, I see your problem, so I had to respond!
Anyway, after putting everything back together (loosely because it should all be coming back off again tomorrow) I turned the key and it roared into life. My voltmeter was showing a steady 14.22v. I turned on all the lights, heater and wipers and it stuck at 14.22. I went to pick my daughter up from work (only just got finished in time!!) leaving the meter connected and it stuck fast at 14+volts.
So now I am hoping I have cured the problem which appears to have been a little bit of green gunge on the battery lead terminal - I'll post tomorrow to confirm if she starts up and charges ok in the morning.
By the way, anyone know what that bit is behind the alt pulley (part of the alternator) that has vaccuum and other pipes going to it - never seen owt like that before....Wasitdo?
Cheers, Stewart
- (#14356) Stewart, 3 Dec 04 17:50
Something I forgot to mention Derek. Just in case you are not aware, if you mess about with the battery to try and find the fault, always dissconnect the earth lead first.
This is done so that there is no chance of 'arcing' a spanner or something direct to any part of the body which will cause a dead short to earth. If this happens it can cause a painful burn (a spanner can glow red hot if this happens). This is especially important if you have just charged the battery because explosive gasses are given off during the charging process and in the worst scenario the battery could explode because of the spark.
Not that I'm trying to give you nightmares or anything.....
Stewart
- (#14356) Stewart, 3 Dec 04 18:08
Sterwart, that's the vacuum pump- diesels don't create any vacuum in the manifold, so you need a pump to make the brake servo work...
- (#14356) david miller, 4 Dec 04 02:53
Thanks for that David, That's something else I've learnt!
- (#14356) Stewart, 4 Dec 04 07:28
Well, so far so good. The problem appears to have been a small amount of green gunge on the battery terminal. Strange stuff electric innit.
What I have noticed is that when the ignition is turned on the voltage drops below 12 - around 11.75 - seems to be whilst the glow plugs are activated. When you hear the solenoid click out it sometimes stays below 12 or goes just over (showing 12.6 before I turn ignition on). Starts straight away, drops to around 10.5 when cranking. Once started, goes up to around 13.7, without touching throttle, and then straight up to 14.22 as soon as the revs are increased. Put as much equipments on as you can after that and it sticks at 14.22 ish.
Before I cleaned the terminals, when running, it was dropping back to around 12.5 and below.
I'd be interested to know if anyone alse has the same volt drop with just the ignition turned on - still a bit concerned about that - means I might have a dicky connection somewhere in the glow plug circuit?
Thinking aloud now....I forgot to check the drop by just turning the headlights on etc, before turning the ignition....I'll have to try that tomorrow....
- (#14356) Stewart, 5 Dec 04 17:57
Well, the glowplugs take about 40A to run them which will drop the battery voltage quite nicely, thank you. However, if you just turn the ignition on and leave it, you will find that the 'plugs are clicked off after about twice the "light on" time, then the voltage will rise again.
- (#14356) david miller, 6 Dec 04 02:47
Thanks for the helpful description Stewart.
Yes I've chased different voltages all over the place. It sounds as if all your measurement were at the battery terminals but, as you found out, there can be a difference between the battery posts and the terminations that clamp on to them. So you have to be very careful when making measurements.
Toyota seem to use surprisingly thin wiring which causes the voltage to "drop" along its length when a large current is drawn. Poor connections add to this effect. The voltage drop is usually associated with starting problems - not enough voltage getting to the starter solenoid even before the starter draws its massive current. But my investigations were to do with installing an invertor, to create 230Vac, which also takes a lot of current, and cuts out if it detects low input voltage. Also I had to be careful about the voltage when developing the temperature gauge modification kit.
So to comment on having the SAME voltage drop as you would need to be specifically related to where exactly you are measuring the voltage - including what you use as "earth/0V".
- (#14356) Dave Mason (Sussex), 6 Dec 04 03:40
Thanks Dave/David..
Yes, my volt checks were at the battery terminals. The main thing seems to be that it appears to be charging ok now and starting no problem (almost springs into life before I've turned the key!).
It's early days yet, but I suspect I've had the faulty connection problem ever since I've had this superb machine; approx 1.5yrs. It's occasionally 'click, clicked' when trying to start since I've had it. I presumed it was my starter solenoid like I had in my previous Spacecruiser, same symptoms, but this last year I've been so busy I did not get round to doing it (the main contactor posts in the solenoid had worn/burnt unevenly so I cleaned them up, fitted plastic spacers to even them up and that was it - never had any more trouble with it).
Like I said earlier, electrics wierd stuff isn't it, so I'm not going to confuse myself any more with this one. I'll just check my battery voltage now and again to make sure.
The most important thing now is to change all my drive belts and hopefully that'll set me up ok for the winter - fingers crossed.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Stewart
- (#14356) Stewart, 9 Dec 04 06:58
Hi
I have taken the alternator for repair and was told that it was working ok, I have been told thatthe problem lies with the voltage regulator but i cannot find it, could anyone point me in the right direction also i am trying to locate a decent manual,
thanks
Ken
- (#14356) ken lawrence, 15 Dec 04 07:37
Assuming you have a Townace.
Behind the glove compartment, remove it and it's bolted to a cross member.
- (#14356) Clive (Bristol), 15 Dec 04 07:53