Townace 2.0 TD Auto slow starter and loads of smoke!
Please advise;
Had to have engine rebuilt after major overheat breakdown two months ago, off road for 6 weeks and accepted vehucle back mainly due to frustration with mechanic finding fault after fault and mounting bill (£850 and rising).
I've got a few problems since but the main one at the moment is that I have to turn it over for ages when cold and create loads of smoke which is a tad embarrasing with passers-by coughing and spluttering.
Please help me to locate and test the glowplugs as I suspect that mechanic has made mistake in rewiring.
I stress that I am a novice home mechanic and would happily take her to a RECOMENDED garage in Southampton area to sort if you think it advisable.
PS She started faultlessly prior to rebuild.
In anticipation THANKS
Andy H
- (#14404) andy hamshare, 5 Dec 04 05:12
You will only notice a problem with faulty glowplugs in really cold weather. It's not been too bad temperature-wise lately so doubt that is your problem although it could be partly to blame if your mechanic is as incompetent as you claim. There have been a number of threads recently on how the glowplugs circuit is connected up.
However, lots of smoke is nothing to do with plugs. Sounds like he's been tinkering with the fuel pump. You could do with having it checked at a decent garage that has the facility to set up the pump.
- (#14404) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 6 Dec 04 01:26
Dunno Ian. If you've iffy glowplugs it's possible to get incomplete combustion- the engine won't fire, but WILL produce massive clouds of white smoke. Vaporised diesel, and right stinky stuff too!
Doesn't matter tho. It's got to be either fuel at the wrong time or not enough heat to burn it...
Ah. I wonder if whoever built the engine set the valve clearances a tad too tight. These engines REDUCE the clearance when really cold...
- (#14404) david miller, 6 Dec 04 02:53
Well David as you know, I inadvertantly ran mine for many months without glowplugs. No smoke, bad starting or anything but I suppose I could have been lucky.
However, knowing that wiring the plug circuit up wrong after a head overhaul seems to be common practice for mechanics and bearing in mind what Andy has said, in his position I would definitely sleep easier after checking the plugs out.
That aside, I would put money on his mechanic dicking with the pump. All those screws and things - too much of a temptation not to :-)
- (#14404) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 6 Dec 04 03:10
lol!
- (#14404) david miller, 6 Dec 04 03:29
ian & dave,
thanks for replying so far, here's a bit more info;
the smoke is white.
on sunday i did a DIY check on the plugs by taking a couple out, reconnecting them and seeing whether they got hot, i did this years ago on a fiat regatta (like a russian taxi but we loved it all the same) and the good ones glowed very nicely). on my townie they did nothing, so i assume they aren't wired up correcly.
as i wouldn't know how to use electrical test equipment, i am reluctant to tinker too much in that department.
also, the car was in kent (160 miles away) and the communication wasn't too good. but, he used loads of "easystart" to fire it up. she also fires great within 1-2 hours of stopping, i assume that's cos she's still warm????
bearing in mind my inexperience, do you know of a good mechanic (mobile or garage) near to me?
thanks so far
andy ;-)
- (#14404) andy h, 7 Dec 04 16:35
The two could be connected or the white smoke could be due to insufficient fuel. Check the plug circuit first and you may just cure both.
I would start with the plugs and check through the wiring. I posted a mail a couple of months ago stating what should go where. Search the archives and go through the procedure. Ideally you need a voltmeter but failing that you could connect each plug in turn to the battery to see if they glow but be careful and don't leave them on for long. Once you have determined your plugs are ok, you then need to check through the connections as I detailed in my post. Also check the 80A fuse under the driver's seat. Again it's all been covered before. If you still have no joy come back and I'll try and write up an article with pics if I can find the time. I've been threatening to do it for a while anyway.
- (#14404) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 8 Dec 04 03:28
Hi Ian Dunse. I have been meaning to ask you. How did you start the van without glow plugs. Explain the process. I think I would like to like to experiment with my starting process. I have to glow for about 30 seconds and most times I have a bad start, smoke, rough idle. Also been having quiet a bit of problem. Can shifting the pump cause overheating?
- (#14404) Rohan Mallett, 13 Dec 04 09:49
The glow plug process simply sends 11.5v to the plugs for about 6 seconds after which the afterglow kicks in and the voltage drops to about 7v at the same time as the glowplug light goes out on the dash. These times are governed by the #1 glowplug relay (near air filter) and #2 relay (in the passenger side B pillar). During this time the air in the piston chambers have warmed up such that the injected diesel/air mixture ignites easier under compression at the first cycle - physics and entropy and all that. The chambers are then already warm as a result of the initial firings so that subsequent cycles fire ok. Consequently as the engine warms up, the tickover becomes more stable.
If the outside temperature is fairly warm ie. above 5 degrees, then the difference made by the glowplugs is minimal and the engine will fire without the plugs. Obviously the colder the weather, the longer it takes to crank the engine and get it to fire.
The weather hasn't been too cold lately so I would guess if you are cranking for 30 secs then you have another problem as well. Moving the pump? What do you mean? If the settings have been upset then yes, that will undoubtedly have an effect. The pump needs setting up with specialist equipment.
- (#14404) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 13 Dec 04 10:18
I wonder if the derv pump is a tooth out, too far one way and it will knock like a transit and smoke, too far the other and its deadly quiet. both would see a reduction in power too but it will run. check the timing marks - something you can do yourself, if you need the pics on timing it you can e mail me adgo6@aol.com
regards Jim
- (#14404) J adgo, 13 Dec 04 17:31
Hey guys, thanks for the info. I am going to remove the head today :( pray for me guys. I have a spare one but need to take it to get checked. Overheating too regular now and since a flush yesterday, has been foaming a lot at the goose neck.
- (#14404) Rohan Mallett, 14 Dec 04 08:28