(Home) disaster (new camshaft and who knows)

After replacing the head (Over heated before we purchased it) and re-conditioning the Fuel Injection pump (To get it through the MOT).

We then had a knocking noise about a week later.

Took to mechanic (Still ran ok). Said it had blowby and probably piston ring broke. I took whole engine apart (more or less) Pistons where fine except for oil rings.

Turned out to be the injectors over fueling causing the knocking (DOW). Injectors re-conditioned.

Whilst i had it apart I thought I would do the right thing and Put new Piston rings in and Bearings for Con rods (as advised by re-conditioner of engines who checked crankshaft and Bores). It took ages to get the parts.

All back together and ran fine for about two mins without the knocking (Hooray). Everything was running fine and sounded really good. Then it started to idle funny and "miss" and then sheared the Pulley off the Camshaft and shattered my camshaft into about 5 pieces.

Bent some of the valves and the pistons now have an imprint of the valves where they have hit.

The only thing I can think of is that the Timing belt must have jumped although I did it exactly the same way (by the book) as I did last time I did the head and Head Gasket.

I am open to any suggestions as what to do now. It was a re-conned head from Uk Cylinder heads which looked like new (And sort of still does) so I am gutted.

I have an old head with valves in it but it is not good enough to put in. I was wondering if I could transfer the valves. I don't want to spend much more on it as so far it has cost me £1500 in parts.

What is the minimum I can do to get it going. Do I need new pistons (because of the penny type indent on the tops in the middle that they now have after hitting the valves)

I am hoping that I could just get a Cam for it and if I can transfer the valves from the other Head although I expect that it will be more complicated than that.

I really like these vehicles but if it is going to cost much more I am going to have to sell it for spares. I would rather get it going though.

Any help or advise would be appreciated.

Thanks.

- (#1127) Andy, 6 May 05 04:28

Bad luck, Andy. You can certainly swap the valves, and as the failure happened at idle the pistons should be OK, likewise the conrods. You'll probably have to bugger around with the shims to get the clearances right tho. Don't you have a cam from the other head?

Any ideas as to why? Hmm, a couple. Have you rechecked the tensioner, any chance it popped out of it's pivot/ collapsed/ wasn't tightened enough? Are you sure the woodruff keys were correctly in place on both crank and cam? Did either shear?

I'd be pretty confident that your loppy idle was indeed timing related so look closely at all the belt drivetrain.

Anybody out there with a spare cam?

- (#1127) David Miller, 6 May 05 05:10

Bad luck Andy and, it's the kind of problem you don't need after all your efforts to put the engine right.
Have you looked at my earlier posting, further down this list "Cylinder heads Ebay? They look just what you want.
- (#1127) John Davis (leics), 6 May 05 06:49

Thanks both.

Idler pulley and spring were fine still torqued. Spring is still on, Woodruf keys are still in and fine (even though one is no longer attatched to the other end of the cam). Pistons were fine except that now they have a nice circle (three instead of two) in them. everything was fine as I have re-checked even though it is in bits.

Found two deep scores on the Crankshaft pulley so I think something got in and made the timing belt jump probably either at the outside pulley of the crankshaft or in under the belt. We found some bits of metal behind the Water pump part of the timing belt so it may have stopped that cog for an instant and then dislodged. The belt has some wear signs on the outside of it as though it has ben pressed together and two of the teeth look scored and it was a brand new belt.

The old head did not come with a camshaft and anyway it seems that there is scoring in the holders of the camshaft and so the head may be un-usable according to a mechanic friend of mine (although he was the one who diagnosed piston ring breakage last time and it was Injectors over fueling). I was wondering if it could be Aluminium weilded and then smoothed down.

Might be more expensive than a new head.

Probably need yet another new head.

Pistons are still torgued up as well as I checked by removing all the sump again just in case one had come lose and smacked a Valve but they are fine.

Ah well, I am going to put it down to bad luck and experience (Expensive experience).
- (#1127) Andy, 6 May 05 12:15

Sounds likely then that something got in with the belt, yes. Throw a s/h cam into and see how you go.

- (#1127) David Miller, 6 May 05 12:43

Put second hand cam in from Clive (Thanks Clive).

I also had to change some of the valves as they had been bent (One really bad). I did not however bed the valves in or do anything but transfer them like for like as I don't really understand what I would be doing so I kind of hoped they would be the same as the other heads (Probably not but I am learning).

Suprisingly, it now runs but sounds really bad. Could be valves could be cam (or a bit/lot of both)I have no idea which.

I am frightened to rev it to be honest in case it breaks the cam again and maybe this time break the pistons.

I am more concerned (As I could reluctantly buy yet another head with a cam) with why it went wrong in the first place as I have noticed also that the oil pump pulley for the timing belt has at least 1mm in either direction play in it. Could this be why the timing belt slipped or jumped? If so can I mend it (without taking all the sump off again)

Something has marked the crank shaft pulley deep (Both valleys at the same spot).

I am also not sure if a stone or screw in the outside pulley of the crankshaft could have caused the timing belt to jump.

Any ideas on this I would appreciate.

I don't realy know what to do now.

If it's the valves then I could take them out and do them properly, if it's the cam I think I am looking at a re-con head.

If it's a re-con head then I don't want to put it in and watch the cam break again if it was something else that caused it to go wrong in the first place (Oil pump).

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

- (#1127) Andy, 10 May 05 08:57

Andy, it sounds like you've found the problem. Either the pulley has come loose off the front of the oilpump, or the pump is in the process of collapsing. If the nut is tight, then you'll have to pull the pump.

If you're happy that the timing is set OK and the valve clearances are within spec (you did check them after swapping the valves and cam, yes?), then perhaps it's a lack of oil pressure?... Dunno...

- (#1127) David Miller, 10 May 05 11:22

Yes, thanks Clive for that I will know not to make you laugh if I am stood near you. Does it work the other way as well. i.e. Lots of Laughter from the toilet.

Now I am going to talk to David.

David do you think that a loose Oil pulley is the cause of the problem in the first place as it is only about 1mm tolerance either way. Is that enough to slacken the belt enough for it to slip.

It was when I applied the accelerator that it all seemed to go wrong the first time it broke.

The Timing is set ok for sure but that is my only known constant and that the head is torqued right cause I have done it a lot.

The rest of it is all new to me.

I did not measure the valve clearance as I am not sure what you mean by this (Now I expect your worried, not as worried as Clive with a clean pair of pants on next to a comedian I grant you), I read EM-57 in the manual although I am not sure if I understood it.
As I understood it (Or not) All it said in the manual was that if the valves were shorter not longer then replace them and if the valve looked worn then grind some off it but not a lot. I did not grind any as I don't have a grinder and they were all about the same length anyway (Although I can't measure less than a mm, .1 of a mm is too small for me to go).

I hoped that if the second hand valves had been in another head then they would be somewhere near close.
I did get all the Carbon off them though.

Also I did not mess about with the tappets and shims as I don't have the tools to do it (Yet).

It's hard to know if something is right when you have not done it before or not seen anyone do it.

If I can find out why it broke in the first place I may be able to either get the Head Cam seats fixed and then mess about with the valves and do it properly after or get another new head.

I am going to remove the Rocker cover and see if the cam has done anything worse.

Any help would be appreciated David.

- (#1127) Andy, 10 May 05 14:05

I would like to thank both David miller and Clive for their help in sorting our Townace. The Cam Clive supplied with the valves is working fine now.

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions.

- (#1127) Andy, 19 May 05 10:32