Having some problems with my'94 2.2TD Townace running hot - only got the vehicle a month ago.
I fitted the Ace Answers temp gauge expander, and have the alarm set about 4.5, temp gauge just into the red. If I try to hold 50 mph on the open road the gauge goes into the red, and I think this is indicating a problem (I haven't pushed it to the point of boiling over).
I've flushed through the rad and engine with a hosepipe and replaced the thermostat - ADL with 30mm dia opening. Then thought I'd found the answer when I noticed the radiator matrix was hot at the top, but stone cold at the bottom. Next I replaced the water pump and had the radiator recored with a double core matrix. But it now seems to run even hotter, and the rad is still cold at the bottom (side tanks hot). This cannot be right can it?
The front heater runs nice and hot, rear heater a bit less hot, but seems to need an engine speed a bit more than tickover to maintain the heat output. Is this a clue?
My garage has done a head leak test and say it looks OK.
It seems that something is stopping the coolant circulating properly through the rad. Any ideas?
In putting the thermostat in the return line, ie after the rad has done the cooling, were Toyota trying to make the heater work better in a town runabout do you think? It must mean the head temp will be quite a bit higher than the 82 degrees stamped on the thermostat.
Any comments / suggestions gratefully received.
Cheers....

- (#1687) Neil Browne, 6 Jun 05 17:40

Neil. In my opinion, you are correct in your assumption that Toyota biased the cooling system towards an about town vehicle and it's quick warm up requirements for the heaters etc. Also, in my opinion, they designed for a vehicle running within the national speed limits of 100 KPH, and not for the higher limits in other countries. I continue to think that the key is coolant flow.
My 2Lt Masterace showed these problems when I bought it four years ago. I went right through the engine, ie new head gasket, skim, viscous coupling replacement, radiator (two on my 4WD) flushing and testing but, I think the most important modification was to the thermostat. There are details in the archives of David Millers experiments and, I followed these exactly. I run with a 30 mm genuine thermostat, with three, 3 mm bypass holes, drilled in the flange, for summer use. I change to a winter stat with only one 3mm bypass hole. I fitted a Durite temperature gauge, which is much more accurate that the "hot" biased Toyota one. (Dave Mason's device not being obtainable at that time). Result, perfect cooling, in all conditions. I am a "sedate" motorist who NEVER stresses the engine and is comfortable to use the motorways at around 65mph and, over the last four years I have never had a problem.
Presumably, your garage have tested for head gasket and viscous coupling faults but, details of these are in the archives. I am a firm believer in a "bypassed" stat for these engines and, for over 40,000 miles, it has worked for me.

- (#1687) John Davis (Leics), 7 Jun 05 03:23

Have to agree totally with what John says except for being a sedate motorist (try as I might). I too have been running with a modified thermostat for the past 3 years but with just 2 extra bypass holes. I usually change over to a std stat for winter but didn't bother this year with the weather being so mild. This in conjunction with the Mason device gives me a lower running temp under normal conditions and gives me advance warning of when to ease off the throttle when the coolant temp rises unduly. I would strongly recommend this mod along with the Mason device or Durite gauge to any Townace/Liteace owner.

- (#1687) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 7 Jun 05 07:15

Thanks John and Ian, you were absolutely right....
I drilled three 3.5mm holes in the thermostat, and the temp gauge now sits just below halfway going along quietly, and comes up to threequarters when climbing hills faster than I would have done before.
If three small holes make that much difference, I would guess the thermostat is not very far open, even though the head temp as shown on the gauge is over hot. I'm thinking the problem is the location of the thermostat in the return from the rad - the head can be roasting, but the thermostat, sitting in freshly cooled 'water' never gets the message to open up a bit more.....
It seems to me that what is needed is a low temp thermostat (I did see reference in Ace Answers to a 71 degree thermostat, made for racing Toyotas...). Alternatively, has anyone fitted a Townace with a thermostat in the conventional position, perhaps using parts from another 2/3CT engined Toyota.
- (#1687) Neil Browne, 7 Jun 05 17:22

Drilling the holes, as well as purely allowing more flow, also alters the bias between rad flow and bypass flow (heater and injection pump). Don't ask be what this is actually doing to flow patterns in the chamber behind the 'stat, but the result is indeed lower running temps.
Remember that the sensing end of the 'stat is at the engine side, and will be in close contact with the block (the end disc damn near covers the hole at the back when fully open...) so the cooled return water doesn't affect it too badly.

All versions of the 2&3C have the stat in the same place so no options there, but one of our members (from AU or NZ, can't quite recall) fabricated an adaptor to top-mount the stat

- (#1687) David Miller, 8 Jun 05 02:39

I hope all you old hands to the cooling debate will bear with me - I want to understand what goes on in my Townace....
Having run a few more miles, I've found that even with three 3.5mm holes drilled in the thermostat, my Mason modified temp gauge will get near the red climbing hills, (and feels as if it would go into the red if I kept on flogging it! )
The three holes mod was a major step forward, and I agree with John Davis that the key seems to be coolant flow, and the thermostat seems to be the restriction.
In order for the engine to run at a constant temp, the thermostat must need to sense temp variations quickly, and the correct place to do that must be at the outlet of hot water from the cylinder head, ie. the conventional location. However, Toyota are sound engineers, so somehow the Townace arangement must be expected to give a quick warmup, good heater, and avoid cooking the engine. I can't quite understand how that can work...
After fitting the double core rad to my Townace, it ran even hotter. I thought about that, and concluded it must be because the thermostat was now detecting cooler water returning from the better rad, and ignoring the overheating head!
To come to the point, has anyone tried that 71 degree thermostat? My next move is to do that, or to fabricate a housing for a thermostat at the outlet from the head.
I think the Townace is a fine machine with lots of character, but it makes me nervous having to drive to the temperature gauge, so I'd like to sort this out.
Cheers.....

- (#1687) Neil Browne, 14 Jun 05 15:12

What would happen if the thermostat was just removed? Longer to heat up, etc, but any major drawbacks? My MKII Cortina ran for years with no thermostat.

- (#1687) Tom Lister, 14 Jun 05 16:59

Overheating is a probability, believe it or not...

- (#1687) David Miller, 15 Jun 05 00:44

If I were you, Neil, I would try to get comments from other "new shape" owners who've modified their temp gauge. It may be that "Mason modified temp gauge will get near the red climbing hills" is not too much cause for concern.

Anyone got some feedback?

I've sold a lot to "new shape owners" but have very little idea what sort of results they give, apart from that everyone was satisfied. All my prototyping was on pre92 Aces.

- (#1687) Dave Mason (Sussex), 15 Jun 05 07:43

Now I'm intrigued, David. What causes that then? My Cortina just ran a little bit on the cool side (especially in winter) - though the Cortina cooling system was pretty basic compared to the 4x4 Townie.

- (#1687) Tom, 15 Jun 05 17:02

Too much flow. The coolant doesn't get a chance to exchange heat because it's moving too fast. In racing circles, if you don't want a 'stat, you replace it with a restrictor disc (a big washer...) of the correct size to give the properties you want...

- (#1687) David Miller, 15 Jun 05 22:45

i've noticed that the pump shifts a large quantity of water round the system at high revs. so the adapted thermostat with the holes drilled into it is in fact now a sophisticated restrictor washer.

my beast would actualy cool down slightly in queing traffic, and i find that i have an electric fan above the horizontal rad, presumably fitted by a previous owner. doesn't seem to have sucked any debris into the rad, and certainly has helped keep the beast very temperature-stable (or it did until the vertical rad started leaking :-( ).

- (#1687) Tom, 16 Jun 05 08:38

Electric fan on horizontal rad - two off? They're standard kit on 4WDs.

- (#1687) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 17 Jun 05 00:44

and some 2wd as well...

- (#1687) David Miller, 17 Jun 05 00:53

????

Ages ago I'm sure I read a thread where someone suggested putting an electric fan on the horizontal rad, and they were told not to in case it sucked stones into the grill and punctured it... Ho hum, I must pay more attention! :-)

- (#1687) Tom, 17 Jun 05 02:07

Tom
i have a new shape with temp gauge mod and the gauge goes to about 3 mms from the red when under stress ie steep hillclimb but doesnt actually reach the red, as for the alarm adjustment my one is at 3.5

- (#1687) ivan, 17 Jun 05 10:59

Thanks for the info, Ivan. My Liteace is the old (slightly smaller) version, and the Dave Mason alarm I have fitted doesn't make as dramatic a difference to the gauge on my beast as it does on some of them. Usualy the needle is rock-steady on the letter E of temp, and on a steep climb it will move across to bisect the M. In the past the Mason alarm was turned fully sensitive, and stil would only buzz on hot days, but now with the blocked rad the needle creeps on up to the P and I alway stop and rest the beast before it can get any higher. The buzzer is very useful and I am sure that it has saved me from drastic overheating a few times now - Cheers, Dave!

I have put her on SORN as of tomorrow, and when I have saved up some pennies will get the rad recored and the head gasket checked out.

- (#1687) Tom, 17 Jun 05 16:23

Ivan,
That's climbing at near full load? Are you running a modified thermostat?
Neil

- (#1687) Neil Browne, 19 Jun 05 16:03

Neil
no just standard thermo
btw ignore, troll best tactic

- (#1687) ivan, 20 Jun 05 07:19

I have finally cooled my townie. It is a manual 1990 4WD model with a 2CT 1980cc diesel engine. I live in Uganda (East Africa) and the weather out here is fantastic all year round (Tropical). The engine over heating problem was noticed almost immediately after I bought the car that is about a year ago, the temperature guage would go beyond the mid point and removing the radiator cap was troublesome because of high pressure build up in the cooling system even after short drives. I was also losing a lot of coolant since I would have to top up the radiator with at least one liter of water every morning. So I called the services of a mechanic. He opened and cleaned out the radiator, this removed alot of rust and sludge but did little to cool the townie. Then he replaced the overhead gasket after surfacing the head. The cooling as indicated by the temperature guage did not improve, however there was no more pressure build up in the cooling system. Next he checked and replaces the temperature sensor on the engine. The readings on the temperature guage drasticaly fell to bellow the 11 Oclock position. When I put the townie on a long out of town drive, the temperature guage readings kept climbing beyond the mid point, and I was loosing the coolant, it turned out that I had leakages in the radiator. These were blocked and I put Holts radweld into the radiator. For a month now, I have had no touble with engine over heating, nor have I had to top up the radiator coolant. Not even on long out of town drives. The the temperature guage readings have remained below the 11 Oclock position even when I push the townie to 120Km/hr. I am at complete peace with my townie.

Thanks for all the usefull information that you post on the A-Answers site.

- (#1687) David Balinda, 22 Jun 05 03:47