My townace was leaking oil recently and the garage has diagnosed leaking oil pipes between the oil filter and the engine block. There are two pipes that need to be replaced but one of them will not be delivered until 27th July. This is a long time to be without the car and I need the car for a family holiday from the 30th.
I have asked for the part number to see if I can find an alternative source - it is 1576864050.
Google does not turn up this number. Can anyone help?
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 14 Jul 05 06:09
Uh, that's a coolant pipe, is it not? Water is channelled to and from that older oil cooler via the hoses, the oil arrives through the two banjo bolts securing it to the block...
Your garage might want to confirm their diagnosis.
- (#2167) David Miller, 14 Jul 05 06:41
I'm afraid I don't know what this area looks like (just thought - will the engine manual show this area? if so I'll look when I get home) but on AceAnswers/engine mechanical/oil/oil pipes there is a picture which appear to show two pipes to the oil filter - can you explain?
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 14 Jul 05 06:57
OK, I made a slight oopsie there. Re-checking the parts info , yours is the later cooler (that most of us are used to...). It's inline with the oil filter, yes. But regardless, it's still COOLANT that flows through the hoses.
RM025 won't help, it only shows the earlier cooler in a FWD application. But give me an email addy and I'll send you an image of the requisite parts.
But none of this will help you cure an oil leak. there's a gasket between the block and the filter mount, and an Oring between the filter mount and the cooler. Assuming the problem isn't elsewhere completely, one of these must be the problem...
- (#2167) David Miller, 14 Jul 05 08:21
I am reassured because the garage's response is that the reason they are replacing the pipes is because they are perishing and while fixing the problem they will disturb them creating further problems so putting in new pipes makes sense. Sounds good to me!
So the question is back out there can anyone suggest a source for the 1576864050?
David, I'm thinking how best for you to give me the info without exposing either of us to spam by revealing our email addresses? But perhaps we'll leave it for now if you think the above makes sense.
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 14 Jul 05 09:57
Whoa. Just had a thought. It's a metal pipe, not a hose. Pipes don't perish... there are hoses linking the pipe sections together, but they're just lengths of oilproof hose that you could get from the factors...
Anyways. Can you garage confirm that the requisite parts were ordered VOR (vehicle off road, express delivery)? That particular pipe will no doubt be dealer-only. If time is of the essence, what about good secondhand?
- (#2167) David Miller, 14 Jul 05 10:41
I assume the required parts are the metal pipes and that they are the worst for wear and susceptible to damage through rework therefore good move to replace them now rather than have problems later when all put together? Or you saying that the metal pipes just do not present these problems?
I wasn't aware of VOR - I'll ask.
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 14 Jul 05 11:13
Well, you don't have to disturb the metalwork to get at the oil cooler, merely slip the rubber hoses off. Now it does *occasionally* happen the steel water pipes rust out from the inside, but that's kinda rare...
- (#2167) David Miller, 14 Jul 05 13:05
The garage advises that the part was ordered VOR but it has to come from outside the UK hence the delay.
I spoke to the mechanic himself about the work and he says he is not replacing the coolant pipes to the oil cooler but there is an oil pipe connecting to the banjo (I haven't a clue what this is!) and another pipe connecting to this pipe. It is these oil pipes that will be disturbed and which he wants to replace with new as he is concerned that the joints will not be as good as it should be.
The part number will have been advised by the supplier over the telephone so it's worth checking that the right part numbers have been ordered!! Imagine two weeks down the line and it's the wrong part - I'm smiling now but I won't be then!! David does your drawing clearly show the pipes & part numbers in question? Is there anything else you need to know about my vehicle apart from 'G-reg Mastersurf 2L diesel'?
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 15 Jul 05 03:56
Ah. There *are* oil pipes in that region, but they connect to the turbo...
There are two versions of the pipework in question, the changeover happening in 08/90. Can you verify that your vehicle is the earlier model? (the part number given relates to the earlier one...)The difference is in the coolant plumbing to the turbo.
I think the problem then might be that beside the banjo bolt holding that coolant pipe on, there is another one, which attaches the oil feed pipe to the turbo. Although your mechanic might be talking about the coolant return hose from the turbo, which connects onto the coolant pipe in question as well
Drop me an email and I'll send you some pics.
- (#2167) David Miller, 15 Jul 05 04:53
This is how parts delivery was explained to me by my friendly Toyota parts man:
The dealership will request the part from Toyota UK, if in stock, delivery is within 2-3 days. If not in stock, Toyota UK contact Toyota Europe (Belgium I think) if in stock, delivery is usually about 5 days. If not in stock then order goes to Toyota Japan. If you state VOR (Vehicle Off Road) then they will put a priority status on your order and delivery is usually 5 days (air freight) or about 10 days by sea (if heavy). Your part should come by air so 5 days applies.
However, non-Toyota garages don't always order parts from dealers. In my early days of Townace ownership, I've ordered parts from a garage with a sub-franchise arrangement with Toyota. They get their parts from an outfit in Luton (forget the name) and although they cost the same (to me, and I've checked) and come in a Toyota branded box, they seem to come the slower route from Japan (10 days for a glowplug relay and 4 weeks for an exhaust manifold for example).
Moral of the story? Tell the garage that you will supply the parts for the job and order them from the dealer yourself quoting VOR or do the job yourself. Of course the downside is that if you order the wrong part number, you are liable and you cannot exchange parts shipped from Japan (unless proven faulty).
- (#2167) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 15 Jul 05 07:20
Forgot to add - obviously the manifold wasn't ordered VOR (although it should have been obvious) or Toyota Japan couldn't immediately supply from stock or the ship came via Cape Horn maybe :-)
- (#2167) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 15 Jul 05 07:25
Ok I've spoken to the mechanic and...
the oil leak is behind the alternator
the oil is 'pouring out' (i.e. not just a residue) of the pipe (joint?)
the toyota parts supplier was asked to fax across a picture of all oil pipes connecting to offside of engine block for vehicle with chassis number etc.
the picture is the same as David's pipes1 (early).
from this he was able to identify 15777C no.1 and 15777B no.2.
So are those pipes definitely coolant (water) pipes. Is the picture on AceAnswers under oil pipes (same as David's pipes2 (late)) incorrectly titled. And does "behind the alternator" give a clue to cause of oil leak if not from this pipe?
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 15 Jul 05 09:54
I have a problem I do not know how to resolve.
The mechanic is adamant that oil is coming out of the pipe at the connection to the engine block.
The Toyota garage is adamant it is an oil pipe.
The AceAnswers shows this pipe under category 'oil pipes'.
And lastly a 'lone voice in the wilderness' (I have a good deal of respect for the 'lone voice in the wilderness'!) is adamant this pipe is coolant.
Can anyone suggest how I can sort this once and for all preferably on Toyota material (parts CD?) that the Toyota garage has access to. If I can get the Toyota garage to agree with David then that should be enough to get the mechanic to look again with the information David has provided.
David previously responded:
An oil leak behind the alt.?
It's either the flexihose to the turbo (likely, not the first one i've heard
of), or one of the oil lines to the alternator vacuum pump. Thay all end up
in the same rough area behind the alternator.
Turbo oil supply hose 90923-02098
Vacuum pump supply hose 90923-02099
Vacuum pump oil return hose 29611-64010
And yes, the two hoses to the oil cooler are without doubt coolant...
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 18 Jul 05 03:48
Well the only way you are going to sort this is to give the mechanic his head. That's why you went to the garage in the first place isn't it?
What you do need to do is be firm with the guy and tell him you have doubts about his diagnosis and that if he has got it wrong then you don't want to get into the business of "Ok we will now try this sir" while you pay for extra unnecessary work and parts and endure further delays while they order even more parts from Japan.
If he is prepared to undertake the work on this basis then fine let him get on with it. If he won't then you may want to reconsider giving him the work.
- (#2167) Ian Dunse (Derbs), 18 Jul 05 05:48
The only way there could possibly be oil in either of the two hoses at the oil cooler is if the cooler has failed, or likewise the head gasket has gone. You's have a murky expansion bottle either way...
- (#2167) David Miller, 18 Jul 05 08:35
Thanks Ian for the focus!
David, thanks for the analysis. I provided the analysis to the garage including partially easing of the connecting hose to see what comes out! I hope to hear from them tomorrow.
I've changed the turbo before....how easy is it to get access to the area behind the alternator from 'on top' i.e. looking down when seat pan is removed?
So....is someone going to remove the picture of oil cooler pipes from the Ace Answers oil pipes directory?
What is this complicated 'joint' at the end of the pipe 15777B no.2?
- (#2167) Peter Dawson, 18 Jul 05 11:47
That alternator might need removed to get good access, I can't recall (it's a long time since I've been in there...)but certainly no harder to deal with than the turbo.
That no.2 pipe has two hose spigots on- one to the cooler, one to the turbo. The other little sticky-out bit is nothing more than a locator- Toyota's way of ensuring you put it on in the right orientation, there's a little depression in the block for it to reside in.
- (#2167) David Miller, 18 Jul 05 13:20